Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Debian 12 “Bookworm”

debian.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 241 posts

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#51

Post by still_grokking »

rollcat wrote: post #22
troad wrote: post #5

Congratulations to the Debian team! An important change appears to be the inclusion of non-free firmware by default in the official install image for the first time, as a result of this vote: https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003 Intriguing. I feel a little torn on this. One the one hand, I appreciate being able to install Debian from an official image onto a bothersome device. On the other, I can't help but feel…

> On the other, I can't help but feel we're losing something when even a purist distribution like Debian is forced to concede in the fight against proprietary firmware blobs. The software needs hardware to run, and the whole point of the software is to make the hardware useful. If you can't use the hardware, what's the point of the software? In my book, freedom is a function of usefulness. No amount of redistributabl…

I disagree. I'm very disappointed that this "necessity" came into existence in the first place.

By being forced to install non-free BLOBs to be able to use "our" devices we actually admit that we're not the ones who actually control "our" computers. That's admitting full defeat! You're not the owner of "your" devices.

Given that computers are now kind of "brain extensions" this means you're not in control of a substantial part of yourself.

This has quite some implications! And I'm not even thinking about such things like future computer devices connected directly to human brains…

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#52

Post by marpstar »

whatwhaaaaat wrote: post #38
28304283409234 wrote: post #7

Never ceases to amaze me. There is all kinds of things wrong with Debian I am sure. But at the end of the day, what that community does is mindblowingly impressive. Much gratitude from a Slink-and-a-half user, back in the day.

All kinds of things wrong? It’s the base for half the Linux distros. What could you possibly mean?

I think they were referring to the fact that everything has something "wrong" with it, but that those things don't invalidate the value of the greater whole.

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#53

Post by cardanome »

troad wrote: post #29
fb03 wrote: post #18

Testing this out in a VM. I want to move away from Ubuntu (honestly, from SNAPs)

I'm also considering this, but I'm a little afraid of being stuck in the slow lane when it comes to software updates. I'm aware of Backports, but I'm led to believe it has a somewhat limited selection. Perhaps this is a good opportunity to try a combination of Debian, for general system stability, and Nix, for specific tools where I need newer releases? Has anyone tried this combination before? If so, how did you fin…

Why not use Linux Mint?

It is Ubuntu-based but without the bad parts like snap. So you get to keep access to all the Ubuntu packages but also your sanity.

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#55

Post by pietro72ohboy »

marpstar wrote: post #52
whatwhaaaaat wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All kinds of things wrong? It’s the base for half the Linux distros. What could you possibly mean?

I think they were referring to the fact that everything has something "wrong" with it, but that those things don't invalidate the value of the greater whole.

Seems to be an extremely charitable interpretation of the parent comment. I also read it as -- "Despite the plethora of issues with Debian, it manages to surprise". Like the second-level commenter, I'm also curious to hear more about these "issues".

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#56

Post by mistrial9 »

yrro wrote: post #32
troad wrote: post #5

Congratulations to the Debian team! An important change appears to be the inclusion of non-free firmware by default in the official install image for the first time, as a result of this vote: https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003 Intriguing. I feel a little torn on this. One the one hand, I appreciate being able to install Debian from an official image onto a bothersome device. On the other, I can't help but feel…

Debian was never a purist distribution. If it was then there wouldn't have been a non-free section in the archive in the first place. The sad truth is that the Linux distributions recommended by the FSF have approximately zero users.

at those great (FSF) heights, the light is bright but the air is thin!

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#59

Post by sylware »

yrro wrote: post #39
sylware wrote: post #33

Finally with init system alternatives or do they still shove systemd down our throat (if so I'll stick to devuan gnu/linux instead)?

Finally? Debian has always shipped sysvinit and a bunch of other less-used init systems.

I cannot find install images without systemd and with sysvinit.

Do I miss something?

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#60

Post by still_grokking »

whatwhaaaaat wrote: post #38
28304283409234 wrote: post #7

Never ceases to amaze me. There is all kinds of things wrong with Debian I am sure. But at the end of the day, what that community does is mindblowingly impressive. Much gratitude from a Slink-and-a-half user, back in the day.

All kinds of things wrong? It’s the base for half the Linux distros. What could you possibly mean?

Half the Linux distris? I've once counted on Distrowatch. When you go by number of distris there it's more like 80% are Debian based.

If you go also by how much those distris are used it's even like 9x% of the stuff running out there is Debian based.

There are almost no independent distris. You have Arch, you have SUSE, you have RedHat and a few clones, you have Gentoo. But more or less everything else is Debian based.

Post reply on HN