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Re: undefined

#51

Post by eulers_secret »

plondon514 wrote: post #4

Hello HN! I started this project a few years ago when I was unfortunately rejected by Codecademy for a software engineering position for the 3rd time. I love coding, and I love helping others learn to code. In my spare time I volunteer at Justice Through Code ( https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode ), which helps previously incarcerated people re-enter the workforce. If you're passionate about help…

Do you have any recent figures for job placement?

The market is very tough right now, and even well qualified seniors can’t find work. The general consensus is if you don’t have a degree you shouldn’t even bother (unless you have many YoE, then only maybe) and should go to college or leave the industry. Is that true in your experience?

Re: undefined

#52

Post by nsaftarli »

minimaxir wrote: post #40
_aaed wrote: post #11

"Today, almost 50% of code is written by AI" whats the source for this?

It's roughly a figure GitHub has stated with Copilot: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/events/FY-2023/Morg... > Scott Guthrie: I think you're going to see – I mean, I guess the way to look at it would be what is the productivity win you're giving to the business, whether it's around making an employee more productive or making a specific business process more effective. Take the example of, say, GitHub Copilo…

So, not 50% (which I think we all knew), but an estimated 40% of the people using Copilot (some percentage of devs), with that figure being heavily dependent on how the study was done. Are people self reporting these figures? Because you'd have to think that there'd be a sampling bias there.

Anecdotally, copilot has gotten in my way more than it has been useful, so I'm having trouble buying these figures.

Re: undefined

#53

Post by DeltaCoast »

I worked at Codecademy - you're right the getting stuck part hurts people moving forward, we spent a lot of time trying to help people without outright spitting it out - it was less about runtime errors and more about the concept. I'm not sure that an AI spitting out an answer is the right solution to help people learn - we also thought about different forms (projects, embeds in articles, tutors, etc)

Another Codecademy alumn is building a different learn to code platform - he wrote many courses and was always interested in teaching and providing resources.

https://www.codedex.io/

All in all, they problems were learning and education problems rather than technical.

Re: undefined

#54

Post by moneywoes »

plondon514 wrote: post #4

Hello HN! I started this project a few years ago when I was unfortunately rejected by Codecademy for a software engineering position for the 3rd time. I love coding, and I love helping others learn to code. In my spare time I volunteer at Justice Through Code ( https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode ), which helps previously incarcerated people re-enter the workforce. If you're passionate about help…

can you cite that statistic?

Re: undefined

#55

Post by Solvency »

hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #39
l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

I don't really understand the hurdle to "learning binary". It's not necessary to understand how binary works to complete a hello world program, but I think it's something that you want to get a handle on pretty quickly. If I recall correctly, we only spent a few minutes on it in a larger lesson about different schemes for representing numbers in Comp Sci I. I don't think I've performed binary arithmetic since that cl…

It's good to know how to eat healthy, avoid processed foods, maintain healthy sleep patterns, avoid PUFAs, maintain strong mind-muscle connection in the body, communicate effectively and succinctly and empathetically with others, and many other life skills as well. And they'd all make you a heathier, happier, more robust, performant human. Which translates to better productivity. Better code.

So, should this new programmer start there, or start with binary?

Re: undefined

#56

Post by WoodenChair »

joshmanders wrote: post #12
l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

Learning binary and knowing what binary is are two separate things. I don't think you need to learn binary to learn to code. Been doing this for 25 years working at some big name companies, I don't know binary other than 1 is on, 0 is off. I'm starting to feel like this whole notion that newbies can't come in and learn say React or modern JavaScript without having to go all the way back to that day in 1995 when they…

> Learning binary and knowing what binary is are two separate things. I don't think you need to learn binary to learn to code. Been doing this for 25 years working at some big name companies, I don't know binary other than 1 is on, 0 is off.

You're wearing your lack of CS knowledge like some kind of badge of honor. Of course you don't need deep CS knowledge to be a competent programmer. But almost undoubtedly you'll be a better programmer if you do know CS (I'm using binary here as a proxy for CS since I can't imagine having a deep knowledge of CS without knowing something fundamental like binary). How many times over those 25 years could a problem have been more efficiently solved (in programmer time or CPU time) if you had known about problem solving techniques (perhaps those related to binary knowledge for example) that you don't know from the world of CS? You'll never know... You may guess, but you'll never know what you don't know.

It's not gatekeeping to say that to give someone a complete education to be a software developer we should provide them a knowledge of binary. We can teach programming in an approachable fashion AND teach binary in an approachable fashion. We do it every day at my college.

Re: undefined

#57

Post by plondon514 »

DeltaCoast wrote: post #53

I worked at Codecademy - you're right the getting stuck part hurts people moving forward, we spent a lot of time trying to help people without outright spitting it out - it was less about runtime errors and more about the concept. I'm not sure that an AI spitting out an answer is the right solution to help people learn - we also thought about different forms (projects, embeds in articles, tutors, etc) Another Codecad…

Thanks Deltacoast, that's an interesting insight. I agree that being given the answer is the wrong approach, and the AI needs to be fine-tuned to not do that, similar to KhanAcademy's Khanmigo bot.

I do think having a knowledgeable assistant can be helpful though. I've watched some users literally get unstuck with the AI, and it's amazing.

Great work on Codecademy by the way, I'm (obviously) a big fan.

Re: undefined

#58

Post by [deleted] »

moneywoes wrote: post #54
plondon514 wrote: post #4

Hello HN! I started this project a few years ago when I was unfortunately rejected by Codecademy for a software engineering position for the 3rd time. I love coding, and I love helping others learn to code. In my spare time I volunteer at Justice Through Code ( https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode ), which helps previously incarcerated people re-enter the workforce. If you're passionate about help…

can you cite that statistic?

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#59

Post by Kalium »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #45
hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand the hurdle to "learning binary". It's not necessary to understand how binary works to complete a hello world program, but I think it's something that you want to get a handle on pretty quickly. If I recall correctly, we only spent a few minutes on it in a larger lesson about different schemes for representing numbers in Comp Sci I. I don't think I've performed binary arithmetic since that cl…

By your own admission you have never used the knowledge you learned. Why exactly is it “good to know how it works” if you literally have never used that knowledge? Why is it “something you want to get a handle on pretty quickly” if you don’t touch binary? Are there places where it would come up? Most certainly. Is it required learning for every single dev out there? Highly debatable.

I've certainly benefited from knowing about floating point error. I likely would have spent a lot of time confused about why certain kinds of math kept coming out wrong without know about the underlying representation of floats, how it results in error, why this tradeoff is good for most scenarios, and other options.

The problem is that this is the sort of foundational knowledge that isn't easily gained through the learn-as-needed approach that applies to higher level things. Most people can notice when they don't know how to use a library. It's probably not obvious to most people who don't already know about it that their computer can handle numbers wrong.

Re: undefined

#60

Post by jason_zig »

Great looking project. IMO it's good to see AI being used to teach as opposed to just plucking out the answer or generating a first draft (better if AI can add jobs rather than destroy them!). I hope you're on to something...
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