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Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

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Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#51

Post by piperswe »

solarkraft wrote: post #45
HelloNurse wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly, this server side component technology is strictly JavaScript (or maybe Typescript etc.), so how can it be marketed as a step forward compared to having the React pages interact with any kind of back end through reasonably standard web services? Throwing away perfectly good backends and replacing them with new and relatively unproven JavaScript implies so much code churn, and novel deploymen…

> how can it be marketed as a step forward compared to having the React pages interact with any kind of back end through reasonably standard web services? With RSP you can implement a server function and (relatively) directly call it on the server, type-safely. Try doing that another back-end (I have and mostly failed).

Isn't that the purpose of tRPC?

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#52

Post by moritzwarhier »

HelloNurse wrote: post #43
thunderbong wrote: post #21

From the article (italics mine) - > So why is Next.js so pushy about it? (React server components) > I can't avoid feeling that the new direction taken by Next.js is not designed to help developers, but to help Vercel sell React. You can't really sell a service around SPAs: once compiled, a SPA is a single JS file that can be hosted for free anywhere. But a server-side rendered app needs a server to run. And a server…

If I understand correctly, this server side component technology is strictly JavaScript (or maybe Typescript etc.), so how can it be marketed as a step forward compared to having the React pages interact with any kind of back end through reasonably standard web services? Throwing away perfectly good backends and replacing them with new and relatively unproven JavaScript implies so much code churn, and novel deploymen…

I don't understand your argument at all. Why would a TS backend be inferior to a PHP backend, for example?

Because for many people, that's the tradeoff.

Think of a new project.

You'll still have "OOP" PHP + some random templating language + the infamously hard to do "sprinkles" of JS.

In the end lots of people start to shoehorn their PHP or Django CMS into REST API parts anyway, reinventing the wheel over and over again, for every new requirement.

I have nothing against PHP or Django or other server technologies with corresponding templating languages.

But to churn on the "old and proven" point in 2023 seems odd to me.

It's tradeoffs all the way down.

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#53

Post by boringuser2 »

mu53 wrote: post #32
soneca wrote: post #13

I was ready to dismiss the article because the answer to the title question is an obvious “No”, as server components is not a breaking change. It’s optional. But the author addresses it and then makes a very good point. > ”The introduction of React Server Components, unlike the Angular.js to Angular 2 transition, is not a breaking change. Existing single-page applications will still work with the latest version of Re…

I think the React team is responding to current trends. SPAs were super trendy. Once people started building them, they recognized that SPAs are much harder to optimize than the code for a single page. Next.js came in, and everyone has slowly been shifting to SSR. If the react team doesn't react, other frameworks will eclipse them. While I don't like the implementation details, I can see what they were going for. Enc…

I've never seen the use-case.

If you're building trivial brochure pages that need SSR for adsense, you shouldnt be using react at all.

If you're building complex apps, it doesn't really make much sense to put the burden of rendering on your server.

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#54

Post by boringuser2 »

lakomen wrote: post #48
soneca wrote: post #13

I was ready to dismiss the article because the answer to the title question is an obvious “No”, as server components is not a breaking change. It’s optional. But the author addresses it and then makes a very good point. > ”The introduction of React Server Components, unlike the Angular.js to Angular 2 transition, is not a breaking change. Existing single-page applications will still work with the latest version of Re…

Svelte already has that and much simpler and more performant than react does. If they won't do it, they'll fall behind. With Svelte I can render a reactive statically rendered website. Nothing to my knowledge can do that in the JS framework world.

In my experience, Svelte made me much less productive because I was fighting with magic. I'd get stuck on obscure issues for hours.

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#55

Post by boringuser2 »

moritzwarhier wrote: post #52
HelloNurse wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly, this server side component technology is strictly JavaScript (or maybe Typescript etc.), so how can it be marketed as a step forward compared to having the React pages interact with any kind of back end through reasonably standard web services? Throwing away perfectly good backends and replacing them with new and relatively unproven JavaScript implies so much code churn, and novel deploymen…

I don't understand your argument at all. Why would a TS backend be inferior to a PHP backend, for example? Because for many people, that's the tradeoff. Think of a new project. You'll still have "OOP" PHP + some random templating language + the infamously hard to do "sprinkles" of JS. In the end lots of people start to shoehorn their PHP or Django CMS into REST API parts anyway, reinventing the wheel over and over ag…

A TS backend is inferior to a PHP backend merely due to available frameworks being night and day in favor of PHP.

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#56

Post by boringuser2 »

DangitBobby wrote: post #36
thunderbong wrote: post #21

From the article (italics mine) - > So why is Next.js so pushy about it? (React server components) > I can't avoid feeling that the new direction taken by Next.js is not designed to help developers, but to help Vercel sell React. You can't really sell a service around SPAs: once compiled, a SPA is a single JS file that can be hosted for free anywhere. But a server-side rendered app needs a server to run. And a server…

Pretty much every app I've ever needed required an API, which meant a server, which meant Next.js would have been a viable candidate. Sure, there are use-cases that you truly don't need an API or you can just hook up to an existing one, but I don't think they're nearly as common.

I don't think any of what you're saying really makes much sense.

Merely having a server doesn't mean SSR provides business-relevant benefits.

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#57

Post by boringuser2 »

datavirtue wrote: post #29
Merad wrote: post #12

I tend to agree with the article. I've felt pretty frustrated with the direction of react in the last few years. Most of the companies I've worked for that used react did so because they wanted a SPA, in most cases making a conscious decision to move away from older SSR technologies towards the SPA. It's doubly frustrating because we primarily use C# and Asp.Net Core for back end work. A react SPA is trivial to use w…

What's wrong with a JS back end? Node/Express is awesome.

It's too fragmented.

Express is actually pretty cool for basic microservices.

For anything complex, hell no.

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#58

Post by paulddraper »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #9

Agree heavily with the article. As an app developer, I actively spend my time walking away from frameworks/languages/libraries that start mashing the server weirdly into client code. Each to their own but I think quasi-RPC implementations are a relic of the past. Treating the network layer as an explicit abstraction to components just feels a better developer experience in the long run. The data abstractions are easi…

I don't get it either.

Doesn't a backend API and frontend web/mobile clients just make so much sense?

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#59

Post by paulddraper »

boringuser2 wrote: post #55
moritzwarhier wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your argument at all. Why would a TS backend be inferior to a PHP backend, for example? Because for many people, that's the tradeoff. Think of a new project. You'll still have "OOP" PHP + some random templating language + the infamously hard to do "sprinkles" of JS. In the end lots of people start to shoehorn their PHP or Django CMS into REST API parts anyway, reinventing the wheel over and over ag…

A TS backend is inferior to a PHP backend merely due to available frameworks being night and day in favor of PHP.

A TS backend is going to have a SPA frontend, reducing the complexity of the backend significantly.

Use Koa and a database client and you're good.

Re: Is React Having an Angular.js Moment?

#60

Post by boringuser2 »

paulddraper wrote: post #59
boringuser2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A TS backend is inferior to a PHP backend merely due to available frameworks being night and day in favor of PHP.

A TS backend is going to have a SPA frontend, reducing the complexity of the backend significantly. Use Koa and a database client and you're good.

PHP isn't "complex", it's nearly identical with minor variations.
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