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Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

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51–60 of 98 posts

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#51

I'd expect analysis explaining why firms are able to achieve "excess profit" now for such a strong claim to be believed.

(1) profit is up. No analysis is required to explain a fact.

(2) profit is up because current winners have built enduring technological, organization, and market advantages that cannot be replicated by competitors in any reasonable time frame for market competition to discipline prices

(3) Because the current winners are stable, no one (in finance, business or government) gains by backing competitors, which amplifies the effect.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#52
post #36

Fake news. This is a measure of where inflation "goes", not what fuels inflation. The narrative that profits are "fueling" inflation is completely made up and the people pushing it are lying to everyone for political reasons. Inflation is caused - in most countries - by excessively loose monetary policy (sometimes fiscal policy, sometimes both). If government policy creates inflation (average prices go up) that money…

> This is a measure of where inflation "goes", not what fuels inflation. The narrative that profits are "fueling" inflation is completely made up and the people pushing it are lying to everyone for political reasons. Inflation is an increase in price level. When prices go up, one might consider that the price of inputs has gone up, or that profits has gone up, or both. If the inputs go up, and the price stays the sam…

Who had increased spending power exactly? I was under the impression the stimulus was mainly directed towards people who had suffered wage loss due to covid.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#53
post #4

Incredible that there's not even a mention of monetary policy. Are they proposing that corporations suddenly became greedy in 2020? During previous periods of low inflation, did they congratulate those corporations for their altruism in keeping prices low? Money is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as everything else, and when there's more of it, it's less valuable.

Corporations didn't suddenly become greedy, they didn't realise that they could be this greedy and get away with it. Typically the market forces that would keep such price gouging in control is competition i.e. if you increase prices a competitor could cut you short and gain market. The pandemic allowed everyone to raise prices and now they played chicken to see who can keep the prices high for longer, only to realis…

In mye MBA studies the teacher for accounting had done research on return of equity (ROE) and it showed over time 10+ year for all Norwegian companies it stuck around 9.3% If something become very profitable then many companies should start to target that marked and the profit should be less over time. It is reasonable to think the same thing should happen now.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#54
post #42
post #4

Incredible that there's not even a mention of monetary policy. Are they proposing that corporations suddenly became greedy in 2020? During previous periods of low inflation, did they congratulate those corporations for their altruism in keeping prices low? Money is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as everything else, and when there's more of it, it's less valuable.

They do mention monetary policy. Is there something specific about monetary policy that you believe contributed to rising inflation? I don't know if they're suggesting that corporations became greedy but rather that they unilaterally increased prices during the pandemic which is the main cause of inflation.

>Is there something specific about monetary policy that you believe contributed to rising inflation?

Surely doubling the money supply in circulation during the 2020 money printing boom had an effect on inflation, wouldn't you say? It' snot like the corporations and street banks just made their money out of thin air.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#55
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> price competition sets in You going to start an airline, a Telco, or meat processing plant because the others are colluding

So, literally everyone is colluding then?

Landlords as well https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-rent-increase-r...

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#56
post #4

Incredible that there's not even a mention of monetary policy. Are they proposing that corporations suddenly became greedy in 2020? During previous periods of low inflation, did they congratulate those corporations for their altruism in keeping prices low? Money is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as everything else, and when there's more of it, it's less valuable.

> Money is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as everything else, and when there's more of it, it's less valuable.

But somehow, none of the post-subprime-crisis QE had any impact on the price, how surprising…

The monetarist take on inflation as a product of money supply died in that period (so much that monetarist proponent invented a new concept of “asset price inflation”).

Inflation in general[1] is not and has never been a money supply topic: it's a supply and demand of goods and services issue. That's why inflation rose in 2021 in the US when the supply chain from China was disrupted, and not so much in the EU which is less dependent on China, despite similar monetary policies on both sides of the Atlantic. And why inflation ended up raising in the EU when Russia invaded Ukraine, because the gas supply was vulnerable.

Inflation isn't even related to the “value of money”, in 2021, the “value of 1$” grew on the FX market, at the same time inflation was raging in the US. In fact, during that year, if you were paid in dollar while living in the Eurozone (like I am) your purchasing power grew (because the price variation between EUR and USD was bigger than inflation in the Eurozone).

Another nail in the coffin of this urban legend is the Eurozone itself: the monetary policy is controlled at the EU level, yet inflation in 2022 has been very different between one country to another (from 5 to 15% YoY, that's a threefold difference!).

[1] hyperinflation is another topic, but even there, it's more of a “loss of confidence in the value of currency” than a supply and demand issue.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations didn't suddenly become greedy, they didn't realise that they could be this greedy and get away with it. Typically the market forces that would keep such price gouging in control is competition i.e. if you increase prices a competitor could cut you short and gain market. The pandemic allowed everyone to raise prices and now they played chicken to see who can keep the prices high for longer, only to realis…

In mye MBA studies the teacher for accounting had done research on return of equity (ROE) and it showed over time 10+ year for all Norwegian companies it stuck around 9.3% If something become very profitable then many companies should start to target that marked and the profit should be less over time. It is reasonable to think the same thing should happen now.

Unless market consolidation has reached a sufficiently high threshold.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#58
post #21
post #4

Incredible that there's not even a mention of monetary policy. Are they proposing that corporations suddenly became greedy in 2020? During previous periods of low inflation, did they congratulate those corporations for their altruism in keeping prices low? Money is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as everything else, and when there's more of it, it's less valuable.

Corps are always inherently greedy. 2020 is when corps started blaming the working class for receiving pandemic aid to stay afloat and started price gouging. Nevermind a decade of low interest rates propping up garbage corps and inflating markets. Has there even been "low inflation" since dropping of the gold standard?

Yes, and then during the 2007-2008 recession, there was even a brief deflationary period, so it's not the gold standard that's the issue.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#59
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do mention monetary policy. Is there something specific about monetary policy that you believe contributed to rising inflation? I don't know if they're suggesting that corporations became greedy but rather that they unilaterally increased prices during the pandemic which is the main cause of inflation.

>Is there something specific about monetary policy that you believe contributed to rising inflation? Surely doubling the money supply in circulation during the 2020 money printing boom had an effect on inflation, wouldn't you say? It' snot like the corporations and street banks just made their money out of thin air.

The how is important though. The money supply grew due to PPP "loans" freely being given out to corporations with the help of street banks. I believe a more careful release of the same amount of money wouldn't have caused the same amount of inflation.

Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages

#60
post #21
post #4

Incredible that there's not even a mention of monetary policy. Are they proposing that corporations suddenly became greedy in 2020? During previous periods of low inflation, did they congratulate those corporations for their altruism in keeping prices low? Money is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as everything else, and when there's more of it, it's less valuable.

Corps are always inherently greedy. 2020 is when corps started blaming the working class for receiving pandemic aid to stay afloat and started price gouging. Nevermind a decade of low interest rates propping up garbage corps and inflating markets. Has there even been "low inflation" since dropping of the gold standard?

> Has there even been "low inflation" since dropping of the gold standard?

The inflation between 1968 and 1970 (during gold standard) was above 4%, which is higher than the inflation has ever been between 1992 and 2020.

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