‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#51

Post by rocketnasa » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:51 PM UTC

witchesindublin wrote: post #36

lemax wrote: post #25

I like to think that you are either consuming culture or contributing to it – if all you are there to do is consume, you may be better off in a place less foreign. I've found that taking the time to integrate with the people, learning the local language and overall just trying really hard to fit in with the rhythm around me has melded quite a different experience for myself. I have tried hopping around the world, doi…

You touch on a major reason where a lot of American digital nomads fail, and that is that it takes A LOT to integrate into a foreign culture. Europeans tend to have a lot more contact with diverse cultures and are more likely to understand that they will suffer from not being about the integrate fully into a foreign culture, but I think that Americans assume that they will be fine wherever they go. Asia in particular…

> You touch on a major reason where a lot of American digital nomads fail, and that is that it takes A LOT to integrate into a foreign culture.

I find they are disappointed because the wealthy are often the first to travel and live multiple-house nomad lifestyle. Which is nothing like being a nobody who has only average income. An actor traveling all over the world with a personal assistant and businesses arranging everything is who they hear about most as the nomads of the world. As they are the big sports stars, film stars, book authors, musicians - doing their show.

But a lot of musicians and such will tell you that it is by no means easy to live on the road and to follow your own path.

Back in the 1980's, George Lucas and Joseph Campbell really tried to make this knowledge clear to people. Campbell: "They've moved out of the society that would have protected them, and into the dark forest, into the world of fire, of original experience. Original experience has not been interpreted for you, and so you've got to work out your life for yourself. Either you can take it or you can't. You don't have to go far off the interpreted path to find yourself in very difficult situations. The courage to face the trials and to bring a whole new body of possibilities into the field of interpreted experience for other people to experience -- that is the hero's deed."

Most people in 2023 wave around light sabers and have never bothered to study any of the things Lucas filmed about the mythology interpretation and human history of experiences.

“One must travel, to learn. Every day, now, old Scriptural phrases that never possessed any significance for me before, take to themselves a meaning.” ― Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#52

Post by bigbillheck » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:51 PM UTC

witchesindublin wrote: post #46

tayo42 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i spent a month in bali after covid, and the ones i talked to were happy to have tourists back. i heard miserable stories from selling everything, going back to farming to survive, personal businesses gone, pets dying because they couldn't take care of them. You cant make generalizations about what people want and don't want. its more complex then that.

South East Asia has been against long term tourists for many years now. They want all the "families" and richer tourists who stay for a few days in expensive hotels that hire lots of local workers.

My dad retired to Thailand 20 years ago and until he got too sick to take care of himself had no problems with any of it. (And after he got sick and before he passed, the home we managed to get him placed in helped him get a 'humanitarian exemption' to being deported for visa crimes).

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#53

Post by wccrawford » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:51 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #31

dfxm12 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One common thread among the people profiled in the article is that they are all "influencers". I do think there there's something unique to influencers vs other digital nomads. There's something off putting about the egoism of thinking you're giving back to the world by broadcasting your life. It's probably more that aspect that people "hate", not necessarily the digital nomad aspect.

This is probably the linchpin. Same thing with "tourist hate" I've read about; I've never had any major issues anywhere I've gone, but then again I don't do the "stereotypical asshole tourist" stuff. "Influencer" is almost synonymous with "online asshole".

I feel the same about being a tourist. I've never felt unwelcome anywhere as a tourist, but I'm also not loud and pushy. They're happy to have my money, and I'm happy to have their hospitality. Even the locals that aren't actually involved don't really mind tourists that are nice.

People who try to change things, whether it's actually for the better or not, are not well-liked. The locals like doing things their way, and they won't like being told to be different, regardless of the long-term benefits.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#54

Post by peoplearepeople » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:52 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #45

witchesindublin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are problems with tensions between locals and digital nomads in several places, especially Portugal, but also in a lot of major cities where they are having a similar effect to Airbnb. A big issue is the strength of the US dollar simply makes it impossible for anyone else to compete and attracts so many Americans.

> There are problems with tensions between locals and digital nomads in several places, especially Portugal I have never heard of this before, and I have a few portuguese friends. Also, in the context of Lisbon, I doubt that 16,000 salaried workers [0] could influence the market to that extent in a city of 500,000 people, especially given that digital nomads make, on average, $120,000 [1]. It seems to me that digital…

Depends how many houses there are, if they had 'just enough' then adding any amount of people can cause a large price spike as everyone tries to outbid each other for remaining inventory. The price increases can become sticky as people start joining the market to speculate

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#55

Post by balls187 » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:53 PM UTC

witchesindublin wrote: post #49

balls187 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're painting with very broad strokes. I would say perhaps Europeans as a whole have much more experience living in a foreign country than Americans do. But as an American with significant travel experience globally, I have yet to visit a country that is as culturally diverse as America.

This never makes any sense to me. Have you been to any country in Southern Europe? Parts of those are akin to the Mexican border with nationalities from all over the world - for example Portugal has a half-Indian prime minister and most of its immigrants are from Latin America, Middle East and Africa, with a number from China via Macau.

What do you consider southern europe, as a red-blooded American, I suck at Geography.

But, I have been to Spain, Italy, Greece, and Turkey.

And it was all full off Spaniards, Italians, Greeks, and Turks, respectively.

Colonialism does mean many european countries do count among their ranks people who aren't "native" to europe, but America is a land of immigrants. Full stop.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#56

Post by beerpls » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:53 PM UTC

Unlike others, i’m going to say I get it.

I had a stranger recently come up to me and ask to come to an event I was inviting others to. No problem! Come along

But the thing is the dude was very shy and awkward. Which isn’t a problem, but definitely cast a bit of a cloud over our social event

All of a sudden I was managing him, taking time and focus out of my night to make him feel welcome. I’m sure he didn’t intend it, but he didn’t make it seem as though he were ungrateful

There are so many little social cues to make social work. And if you’re not even remotely part of the group, you’re probably going to clash

Which is all well and good - it’s let of meeting people… but this guy was just blowing through town. All the investment for what? So he could be 1,000 miles away next week? (he said he would be)

The problem with nomads or even superficial travelers is you are taking from the environment you travel to but rarely give much back. And as the trend grows this back and forth becomes tiring fast

So basically if you’re going to travel or be a nomad - be a badass people want to be around. Commit to it and be ready when you get there to shine a personality. If you can’t do it in an environment and culture you’re familiar with - respect the people you travel to by working on yourself first.

Don’t expect other people to be the prop up to make your life interesting

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#57

Post by wccrawford » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:54 PM UTC

karaterobot wrote: post #47

I know three different people who sold their homes, moved into sailboats, and set out to be waterborne digital nomads, sailing around the world and doing freelance work to support themselves. I know one guy who did the same thing, but with #vanlife. In all these cases, without exception, they regretted it within a year. My advice is, before you liquidate your assets, quit your job, upend your life... give it a dry ru…

I think that most people can't give it a dry run without that liquidation, though. Having a normal job gets in the way of that lifestyle and is virtually guaranteed to sour the experience.

Obvious not all of them like it, but I think even fewer would like it if they don't commit to it outright.

It's definitely not for me. I need a lot more stability than that.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#58

Post by ipnon » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

For what it’s worth America is one of the easiest if not the easiest place to be an immigrant, all things considered. You’ll find a community of your fellow countrymen already thriving, you have well established rights that are maintained by the rule of law, and so long as you try to fit in and work hard nobody will pay much mind. Many if not most digital nomads are Americans traveling from an open minded heterogeneous society to a more conservative and homogeneous one. No matter what you call it you’re leaving a society that is relatively pro immigration behind for a society that is very likely less inviting of foreigners!

I hope the recent wave of digital nomads makes the world a more open and inviting place but there will be growing pains. America has been the land of immigrants for centuries now and we still have blowback. Imagine going to some rural village or regional capital, making 10x more than all the locals while sitting at a hotel on your laptop, and expecting them to roll out the red carpet! Be respectful, be optimistic, and welcome to the life of an immigrant.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#59

Post by harlanji » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

balls187 wrote: post #43

witchesindublin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You touch on a major reason where a lot of American digital nomads fail, and that is that it takes A LOT to integrate into a foreign culture. Europeans tend to have a lot more contact with diverse cultures and are more likely to understand that they will suffer from not being about the integrate fully into a foreign culture, but I think that Americans assume that they will be fine wherever they go. Asia in particular…

You're painting with very broad strokes. I would say perhaps Europeans as a whole have much more experience living in a foreign country than Americans do. But as an American with significant travel experience globally, I have yet to visit a country that is as culturally diverse as America.

You're right. 'America' as people talk about it often means coastal US metros... definitely nothing to do with 'flyover' areas smaller than Chicago.

I'm surprised by pockets of the city I grew up in when I walk a few blocks off the roads I've driven 100s of times. Latin/Somali/Vietnamese/you-name-it neighborhoods I had no idea existed. Sqaure-mile or two neighborhoods within a 1-200sqmi metro, not too surprising.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#60

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

karaterobot wrote: post #47

I know three different people who sold their homes, moved into sailboats, and set out to be waterborne digital nomads, sailing around the world and doing freelance work to support themselves. I know one guy who did the same thing, but with #vanlife. In all these cases, without exception, they regretted it within a year. My advice is, before you liquidate your assets, quit your job, upend your life... give it a dry ru…

I know a few people who didn't really commit to it but, yeah, they didn't really last that long. And, especially as you get older, there are also just a lot of practical issues with not having a home base. And, if you do have a home base, then you need to worry about maintenance and checking in on that base.

My personal take is that I can easily see heading off to someplace for a month. Maybe two. But probably not much interest in more than that.