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Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

arstechnica.com

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Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#51

Post by vlovich123 »

scns wrote: post #40
vlovich123 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone curious, iPhones ship 234 million a year, Watch around 60 million, iPad another 20 million. Not sure about Apple TV but let's assume that's 0. That's over 300 million CPUs a year. I doubt the total chip number for the industry though - Intel alone ships ~100M. But it's clear Apple is very likely the largest manufacturer of CPUs. * Correction: MediaTek shipped 350M units in 2020 and Qualcomm shipped 319M (d…

Correcting yourself, two thumbs up. Margins per CPU shipped? My first, thought was APL at least 7x MTK but i must be so far off here.

Yeah. How you count things is very subjective to where you draw the line. As for margins it's hard to say because Apple doesn't sell chips independently so their profit margin on a chip is withdrawn from however they want to distribute the profit margins for the entire product and Apple does not provide a breakout a sufficient level of granularity into the financials to understand that.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#52

Post by ksec »

dagmx wrote: post #33
als0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there have been rumors seen here that Arm is pushing towards a model where SoC vendors must do all-Arm components Smells like FUD spread by Qualcomm, who are currently in a legal battle with ARM.

Yep, Mediatek for example just announced an ARM processor with NVidia components and there’s already arm processors with AMD GPUs. No other manufacturer seems to be beholden to the terms that Qualcomm is claiming. I’m very inclined to say QC are trying to push for sympathy in the tech sphere.

>I’m very inclined to say QC are trying to push for sympathy in the tech sphere.

And it works every well if you were to judge it by comments on Twitter, HN and Reddit.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#53

Post by sliken »

dijit wrote: post #8
hardware2win wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what definition Apple is chip maker, let alone #1?

If AMD is a chip maker then so is Apple by the same metrics. So, pick those metrics, they're certainly pushing large volumes, they're pushing some of the highest performance and some of the most efficient CPUs available. So, they're #1 in power efficiency, #1 in fanless performance, #1 in Tablets, #1 in Fanless computers, #1 in Mini computers.

That's like calling Tesla a battery maker. You can't buy a bare battery from Tesla or a CPU from Apple.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#54

Post by ksec »

>Today an iPhone 14 Pro embarrasses Arm's best with 63 percent higher single-core scores in Geekbench compared to an X3-equipped Snapdragon 8 Gen 2.

> but these launch events have a history of making performance claims that don't align with what actually arrives in consumers' hands.

Sigh. Both are factually wrong.

First point, Where the heck did that 63 percent came from? The iPhone 14 is about 38% faster. With much larger die size, and larger cache.

Second point implies ARM is lying. When ARM is the only company that gives precise reading of their benchmarks and ISO performance. How about asking that from any other manufacturers.

My guess is that for hardware you should ignore Ars and only read Anandtech or other site who goes into deep dive. Ars is fast becoming Engadget or just another blog.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#55

Post by smoldesu »

brookst wrote: post #49
smoldesu wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is obsessed with their lifestyle designation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfR_Jj4grZE They publish ads and write all their copy with the intention of framing their products as anything other than a computer.

This seems to offend you for some reason. Apple's just doing age-old value selling, where you promote the benefits of a product rather than the features. See https://blog.hubspot.com/sales/value-based-selling

It might shock you to learn that I don't really care :)

I doubt Pat Gelsinger does either, since he's publicly stated that Intel would fab Apple Silicon chips at their ARM foundry if/when TSMC goes offline. The guy's just having a laugh by putting an awfully accurate label on a fruit that pays extra to resist labeling.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#56

Post by GeekyBear »

als0 wrote: post #50
dagmx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that though is that Qualcomm etc tend to skimp versus the recommended cache values.

This. Vendors skimp on cache size because of overall cost. But cache size is just as critical as CPU core when it comes to performance. Apple doesn't sell chips to anyone else, so they have no pressure to have small caches.

Which chip that shipped to customers had performance that did align with ARM's projections?

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#57

Post by als0 »

GeekyBear wrote: post #56
als0 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Vendors skimp on cache size because of overall cost. But cache size is just as critical as CPU core when it comes to performance. Apple doesn't sell chips to anyone else, so they have no pressure to have small caches.

Which chip that shipped to customers had performance that did align with ARM's projections?

None, because of bad cache sizes and horrendous software

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#58

Post by GeekyBear »

als0 wrote: post #57
GeekyBear wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which chip that shipped to customers had performance that did align with ARM's projections?

None, because of bad cache sizes and horrendous software

None, from any vendor who licenses stock ARM cores?

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#59

Post by dagmx »

GeekyBear wrote: post #58
als0 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None, because of bad cache sizes and horrendous software

None, from any vendor who licenses stock ARM cores?

They only license the cores, but they pair them with lower cache sizes.

So you can’t actually find any chips that match ARMs own benchmarks because nobody makes ones at the recommended spec for it.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#60

Post by dagmx »

ksec wrote: post #54

>Today an iPhone 14 Pro embarrasses Arm's best with 63 percent higher single-core scores in Geekbench compared to an X3-equipped Snapdragon 8 Gen 2. > but these launch events have a history of making performance claims that don't align with what actually arrives in consumers' hands. Sigh. Both are factually wrong. First point, Where the heck did that 63 percent came from? The iPhone 14 is about 38% faster. With much…

I really wish Ars would let Ron Amadeo go, or PiP him. Their other writers are much better.

He’s woefully technically inept, his articles often have unchecked errors like this and he jumps to bombastic conclusions like the whole Samsung ROM size issue.

Almost certainly, when I see complaints about writing on Ars, it’s a Ron piece.

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