What I found interesting of this article is that most of it is also applicable to a many tech sector jobs. High pressure to deliver something (because we squeeze the last of people), hire-and-fire practices everywhere, politics and toxic environments (because that is what people do and what is the current social perspective on what is okay). Developers, like scientists, are very outcome driven (number of lines, numbe…
A mental health crisis in science
51–60 of 212 posts
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#52A part of this is that in academia there are often few positive career rewards. You're under pressure to publish frequently, in high impact factor journals, and that is to keep your job. You don't get pay rises or bonuses, or any other career improvements, and job security can be until your next contract, at best. If you don't make it to tenured professor, and have good grant funding, then you are staring down the ba…
E.g. there’s increasingly an expectation that students should come into a PhD program with one or more publications already under their belt. For top programs ideally these should be first author (not yet an absolute requirement but it’s more important each year).
So you better get a good research assistant job as an undergrad so you can do that. It has to be early enough in undergrad that you have time to get the paper out before applying to grad school. So you need to be prepared to get a professor to work with you freshman/sophomore year…
So you have to have evidence of skills basically coming in to undergrad. Either be really brilliant and stand out in class, or, better, have some experience in high school to make you credible…
These pressures would only increase with fewer PhD slots. Maybe that’s fine long term but it does have a distorting effect on people’s lives if you have to make high stakes decisions that early.
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#53All reward and prestige of being a researcher has been lost and the people in the study have a slim chance of being able to work with their degree.
Which I understand is about the opposite of what this article wants, but you shouldn't trust the people who have broken science to fix it. Research itself gets locked behind tightly walled journals and are written with obscure and difficult language laymen can't understand, peer review has become a hoop jumping scam that let's bad research through.
Medical review and other ethics boards are suffocating the ability for researchers to actually do things in a massive overcorrection from the early days of research.
Media is in a continuous game of misrepresentation of everything researchers say and trust in scientific truth had lead to instructional actors getting their fingers in the process and corrupting it to suit their ends.
ARXIV and the likes are the future of science. Where literal discord servers are getting together to publish studies. Yeah. Bunk gets published all the time, but peer review can just happen dynamically through good old regular unchecked skepticism.
I would never in a billion years engage in the academic side of research. If I wanted to be a scientist I'd do it as a hobby, buying the tools to do it in my garage and publishing to open journals where ethics boards and bureaucrats cannot touch me beyond the reach of actual law.
In all hopes, academia will start to crumble and this sort of garage philosophy will grow into a network of people that replaces it with a fresher and more dynamic outlook.
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#54The world is as good as it's ever has been in human history. Minorities, females, lgbtq members, etc, have more rights, are more protected and represented than ever. Extreme poverty is down, life expectancy is up. Human rights for any group are enforced as never before. But mental health issues are still going up at alarming rates. So it must be something else. I have various hypothesis as to what other causes may be…
This has nothing to do with the article.
How exactly does this have "nothing to do with the article"?
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I realize that the CEO was born into a family where they were handed their position. You don’t get to the top by “working hard” that’s a sucker’s game. You need to be born to the right family, grease the right palms and be in the right place at the right time. Being a complete sociopath doesn’t hurt either.
- CEO of Microsoft is a child of middle class Indian immigrants - so is CEO of Google - CEO of Apple comes from working/lower-middle class family - CEO of Johnson and Johnson (12th largest SP500 company) is an immigrant from Spain, coming from middle class family etc etc etc
Middle class people aren’t the secretary to the prime minister.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/satya-nadela-microsoft...
> so is CEO of Google
“His father also had a manufacturing plant that produced electrical components”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundar_Pichai
You’re buying the propaganda.
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#56Science as a whole has died a hard death. All reward and prestige of being a researcher has been lost and the people in the study have a slim chance of being able to work with their degree. Which I understand is about the opposite of what this article wants, but you shouldn't trust the people who have broken science to fix it. Research itself gets locked behind tightly walled journals and are written with obscure and…
Rather, it was very basic stuff, like being told to come in at 5:30AM to feed a cell line only to have the PI show up at 2PM, throw the experiment in the garbage, threaten the student's livelihood, and then demand they stay until 11:30PM redoing the experiment. Over and over again, at random intervals.
I asked around about this stuff because a family member now works in the field and had some startling experiences, only to find that this is apparently almost universal, and that what I'm describing is on the lighter end of it. There are stories about labs at elite universities where the grad students have set up secluded spaces to go hide from their PIs and cry. It's everything you've heard about working as a developer at a video game company, dialed up to 11.
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#57When I was a post grad I could make less than I would at McDonalds for work I was volontold to do. I did the smart thing and quit. When you select for people who don't do the smart thing and want to be exploited in exchange for prestige they get exploited.
I've also been told this is a prime driver for gender disparity in STEM academia: the women with the talent to succeed in a Ph. D. instead go earn their MD.
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#58Science as a whole has died a hard death. All reward and prestige of being a researcher has been lost and the people in the study have a slim chance of being able to work with their degree. Which I understand is about the opposite of what this article wants, but you shouldn't trust the people who have broken science to fix it. Research itself gets locked behind tightly walled journals and are written with obscure and…
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
This has nothing to do with the article.
The article states multiple times that harassment, bullying, abuse and general toxicity is affecting science workers in general, but in particular women and minorities. My post states that said abuses are historically at a low point, especially for those groups, thus can not explain the rise in mental health issues. How exactly does this have "nothing to do with the article"?
Re: A mental health crisis in science
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think being angry is a natural and healthy response to the current economic reality. The juniors you’re working with have it right. If the CEO is going to make 100X as much as me, I’m going to do my best to work 100X less than they do. Hopefully we’ve reached a timeline where we no longer acquiesce to rampant inequality.
If the CEO is going to make 100X as much as me, I’m going to do my best to work 100X less than they do. You realized CEO's make that much money after a long career where they were busting their asses as juniors. You basically made the same argument the grandparent is criticizing.
I have no problem with CEOs making lots of money. I have a problem with them making 100x more than their median employee; especially when their poorest employees aren't making a living wage.