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How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

economist.com

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Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#51

Post by dukeyukey »

realityking wrote: post #34
goatlover wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The climate doesn’t care about per capita. The developing world has the majority of the population, so the majority of additional CO2 will be coming from there.

In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview. If we believe that every country has the right to develop, than the poorest countries emission will increase. Better technology will flatten that increase but those are expensive. Wealthy countries pioneering the widespread use of…

Arguably, developing countries nowadays have a _massive_ advantage in that they could industrialise in a fraction of the time with a fraction of the human suffering developed countries went through _because_ of greentech.

Like, instead of committing millions of your citizens to coal mining with picks and steam-powered lifts, you can just buy or produce turbines and solar panels, put them up and enjoy the benefits of electrification. Worst case, you build cheap has turbines and buy or pump LNG.

Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#52

Post by dukeyukey »

itishappy wrote: post #46
spacebanana7 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview. Being charitable, it’d clearly be an environmental disaster if everyone in the world consumed oil at the per capita level of OECD countries. I imagine global oil consumption would multiply manyfold. > Wealthy countries pioneerin…

From my understanding, China's implementation rate for solar was still quite low. Would that not support the point that they're progressing the tech to sell to other countries?

China doesn't have a great geography for solar. Towards the East, it's either too humid or too far North to reap the full benefits of solar panel, and out West there aren't the population centres to make big differences.

So yeah, I'm guessing it's mostly to sell to countries with better sar geographies, especially the US and Australia.

Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#53

Post by dukeyukey »

roamerz wrote: post #29

The sooner that people realize that the climate is going to change regardless of what humanity does the better off we will be. When the reality sinks in maybe we can put our efforts into adapting. Might have a chance that way.

The climate is going to change.

Whether or not it changes 1000x times the historic norm is up to us.

Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#54

Post by defrost »

ranting-moth wrote: post #3

Is everyone decarbonising? India, China? I get the feeling they're laughing all that way to the bank. (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along)

China takes this seriously:

World’s biggest steel maker (based in China) eyes new green steel plant in WA (Western Australia)

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/world-...

> Western Australia is in the running to host a green steel plant bankrolled by the world’s biggest steel maker, China Baowu Group.

> During talks with Trade Minister Don Farrell in Beijing, company chairman Chen Dorong said the availability of clean energy and ore made Western Australia ideal as a site for the new facility.

> The biggest buyer of Australian iron ore wants to decarbonise operations but is also eyeing West Africa, South America and Saudi Arabia as alternatives.

The largest resource companies are making commitments they regret, but are now tied to public statements and shareholders to meet:

Rio Tinto boss says he regrets ambitious emissions targets

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/rio-ti...

> Rio Tinto boss Jakob Stausholm has admitted he regrets the company’s ambitious emission reduction targets, doubling down on comments about the feasibility of moving to renewable energy at the pace expected.

> “There have been a lot of strong statements made [about the energy transition], but I don’t think people have realised and accounted for the process of getting the land, the cultural clearings and then executing the project,” Stausholm told a business breakfast in Perth on Friday.

Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#55

Post by _hypx »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #48
_hypx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's steel recycling, not production of new steel.

On a long enough time horizon wouldn’t it make sense for most steel to be recycled? I think we already get a lot of our aluminum from recycling.

Maybe. A lot of grades of steel cannot be made from scrap metal. At some point, you have to be able to turn iron rust in new steel, even if that rust comes from old steel.

Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#56

Post by g42gregory »

goatlover wrote: post #13
gumby wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along) It's worth doing even if others don't. Especially for the wealthy countries -- the poor countries emit relatively little carbon per capita. The new energy transition is from op ex to cap ex. Looks expensive in the short term but a big win in the medium and long term. Plus you get the benefit of reduced emissions. Sure, other people do, but even if you're selfis…

The climate doesn’t care about per capita. The developing world has the majority of the population, so the majority of additional CO2 will be coming from there.

China has 1.5 billion people and per capita emissions higher than most Western countries. If you multiply the two numbers...

Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#57

Post by thfuran »

easytiger wrote: post #47
thfuran wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the EPA a mistake because heavy industry without dumping loads of shit in the rivers was a theoretical solution that reduced diversity?

Why do you think that is equivalent?

Why do you think it isn't?

Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

#58

Post by roamerz »

dukeyukey wrote: post #53
roamerz wrote: post #29

The sooner that people realize that the climate is going to change regardless of what humanity does the better off we will be. When the reality sinks in maybe we can put our efforts into adapting. Might have a chance that way.

The climate is going to change. Whether or not it changes 1000x times the historic norm is up to us.

I read in places their are feedback loops that will be impossible to reverse once they start. If that’s true or not I don’t know. My simple mind says we should start with additional dams and develop huge desalinization plants. If we have water we’ll be okay.

On the flip side there is an unstable criminal with his finger on the WW3 button. When he’s done we might need some of that global warming.

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