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Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

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Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#51

Post by jesprenj »

I got a Samsung S21 FE 5G as an award on a programming competition.

OEM unlocking wasn't even an option in the developer settings until I connected the phone to the internet and set the date to one month in the past (I assume this has something to do with the warranty -- you can't even unlock the bootloader right away).

An internet connection was required before even using the phone on the Android initial setup screen.

Apart from that, developer settings can't even be enabled before agreeing with Samsung EULA. Initial setup screen can be weirdly manipulated into opening settings (Accessibility, Additional apps, Live transcribe, Connectivity settings (only shows if there's no inet connection), back), but spamming the Build number does not enable developer settings.

Granted that I did not buy the phone, but it's still disgusting that such devices are being sold.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#52

Post by George83728 »

lostgame wrote: post #39
quaintdev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make phone Google free. More features here https://grapheneos.org/features

So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store? (Pardon my ignorance, I’m an iOS dev and have been for a decade; I don’t really know the Android landscape.)

> So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store?

Not necessarily, but that's the best way to do it. Between apps from F-Droid and a browser, you don't need any apps from the play store. Your bank doesn't have an app on F-Droid you might say? Well that's what the browser is for.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#53

Post by jesprenj »

mschuster91 wrote: post #50
j1elo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xiaomi does the same (or at least did until my latest phone change i.e. around 3 years ago). You must unlock the bootloader before being able to install a custom recovery image such as TWRP, which itself is used to install custom ROMs. This unlock involves: creating a user account in the Xiaomi services website, logging into that account from your phone's system, then having the phone logged in for at least 7 days ,…

Samsung does the same fwiw for their newest phones. Pretty annoying.

You don't need an account, but it's still terrible. I experienced this yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35854287

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#54

Post by Bran_son »

jvanderbot wrote: post #25
Bran_son wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, security is used as an excuse to lock down more than is necessary. To prevent the supply chain attack you mention, the boot lock just has to be tamper evident, such as showing a "Bootloader unlocked" message during boot. As is already the case in some phones. Additionally, a way to reset to a factory-verified state could undo such an attack. Warranty could also easily be achieved by flipping a non-reversibl…

Pixel's are locked down a very tiny bit , and I don't think this is some kind of dystopian over-reach with security as an excuse. For all the security listed in this thread the whole "I must connect to the internet once" problem is a very fair tradeoff from the user's perspective.

> "I must connect to the internet once" problem is a very fair tradeoff

Very fair. All Google requires is this: a simple offering of earth and water. A token of submission to its will.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#55

Post by MereInterest »

mlyle wrote: post #32
dingledork69 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like "you don't get to own your device"

You get to "own your device" after you connect it to the internet once, to make sure it's not pre-provisioned for enterprise use.

If the servers are running. If the servers deign to give permission to own the device you purchased. If they correctly recognize that this device is owned by the user. After I've purchased the device, the seller has no right to withhold ownership, and the existence of enterprise devices doesn't change that in the slightest.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#56

Post by IshKebab »

damisanet wrote: post #24

"Magic hostname" mentioned in article (afwprovisioning-pa.googleapis.com) makes me believe this may be related to zero-touch enrollment of Android Enterprise/Android for Work ( https://support.google.com/work/android/answer/7514005 ). I'm sure devices sold to regular customers and enterprises are identical and nobody is going to unbox and pre-provision them before shipment, so unboxed phone needs to contact provision…

Yes this is obviously the reason they do it. They don't want to have to flash different firmware for carriers, consumers, enterprises, etc. I think it's kind of reasonable.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#57

Post by nimbius »

I got sick of this malarkey years ago with HTC.

Oneplus phones just unlock when told 'OEM unlock' over the adb. No big brother home to phone, no bullshit begging for the rights to my device. If I decide to unlock it the worst I get is a nagscreen at boot with a scary warning about security.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#58

Post by fkarg »

LiamPowell wrote: post #33
dingledork69 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like "you don't get to own your device"

This is correct, people generally don't get to own a device provided by their employer. Not allowing the bootloader to be unlocked on company-owned devices seems like a very desirable feature.

except that their employer[0] doesn't own it either

[0] except for the employer being google in this case

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#59

Post by MereInterest »

LiamPowell wrote: post #33
dingledork69 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like "you don't get to own your device"

This is correct, people generally don't get to own a device provided by their employer. Not allowing the bootloader to be unlocked on company-owned devices seems like a very desirable feature.

Not allowing a bootloader to be unlocked on a company-owned device does sound like a desirable feature, but only for company-owned devices. Applying that setup to all phones assumes that the default phone is a company-owned device and is subject to external control.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#60

Post by AaronFriel »

rfoo wrote: post #37
AaronFriel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the average user would understand what "unlocked bootloader" means, and may even mistake it for a feature or enhancement. It is a supply chain risk. The Android & Pixel teams walk a fine line here: they risk upsetting an important (but small) user group if they change the language and defaults to "THE BOOTLOADER IS UNLOCKED: USE AT YOUR OWN RISK" or even stronger language and shipping these devices to e…

The unlocked bootloader warning screen isn't very different from what you described [1]. It says: > The bootloader is unlocked and software integrity cannot be guaranteed. Any data stored on the device may be available to attackers. Do not store any sensitive data on the device. Visit this link on another device: g.co/ABH It's already pretty strong language (and very accurate! which is a rare combination). [1] https:…

Ah, that's much better than the thread had me believe!

Kudos to the security folks at Google.

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