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U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#51

Post by astrange »

GalenErso wrote: post #50
Georgelemental wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not against Congress passing a debt ceiling hike, I am against Congress passing a "clean" hike that is not paired with the needed cuts in spending. The normal budgeting process clearly hasn't been working, if debt ceiling negotiations are the only way to force a fix then so be it.

But it won't work. The administration won't trade spending cuts for a clean hike. It's like a hostage taker whose demands aren't met. You're left with two options: surrender, or shoot the hostage. Neither gets you what you want, but one is more reasonable than the other.

The adminstration doesn't write budgets, Congress does, even if the president hosts the meetings where they talk about it.

(Although presidents do run on doing a lot of things they don't have the power to do.)

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#52

Post by peyton »

astrange wrote: post #51
GalenErso wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it won't work. The administration won't trade spending cuts for a clean hike. It's like a hostage taker whose demands aren't met. You're left with two options: surrender, or shoot the hostage. Neither gets you what you want, but one is more reasonable than the other.

The adminstration doesn't write budgets, Congress does, even if the president hosts the meetings where they talk about it. (Although presidents do run on doing a lot of things they don't have the power to do.)

The President writes the budget. You can find the budgets here: https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023

Congress passes nonbinding budget resolutions on themselves and binding appropriations bills on the Treasury.

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#53

Post by mikeyouse »

mikem170 wrote: post #20
albatross13 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I've held a view similar to yours for a while, that the two parties are the same in many ways, more beholden to money and power than concerned about their constituents. But I'd point out that one real difference lately is the whole stolen election thing and the related attempts to delegitimize the judicial system. That's some scary stuff. That's how democracies disappear.

And the debt ceiling crisis right now - Democrats raise the debt ceiling under Republican presidents because it’s insane to threaten to cause default.

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#54

Post by JumpCrisscross »

GalenErso wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How else is the executive supposed to check the judicial? Pardons and nominating judges. Disregarding the Court is a constitutional crisis. > would be an even worse precedent for the Supreme Court to force the government to default on its debt On one hand, we have the Court allowing the President to overrule the Congress. Two branches agree. On the other hand, we have the President unilaterally overruling the Congr…

> Disregarding the Court is a constitutional crisis. Then a constitutional crisis there shall be. Words don't scare me. If a "constitutional crisis" means the government _doesn't_ default on its debt and some politicians and pundits cry foul, and nothing else changes under the heavens, then let's have a "constitutional crisis". > On the other hand, we have the President unilaterally overruling the Congress and the Co…

> Then a constitutional crisis there shall be. Words don't scare me

In what universe is constitutional crisis, the suspension of the rule of law, not cause a default? You’re trading a minor infraction for a major one. This is a false economy.

> Congress can impeach and convict if it's such a big deal. Until they do

Police can arrest me if murder is such a big deal.

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#55

Post by JumpCrisscross »

peyton wrote: post #52
astrange wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The adminstration doesn't write budgets, Congress does, even if the president hosts the meetings where they talk about it. (Although presidents do run on doing a lot of things they don't have the power to do.)

The President writes the budget. You can find the budgets here: https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023 Congress passes nonbinding budget resolutions on themselves and binding appropriations bills on the Treasury.

> President writes the budget

The President proposed budgets. The House and the Congress have the power of the purse.

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#56

Post by astrange »

peyton wrote: post #52
astrange wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The adminstration doesn't write budgets, Congress does, even if the president hosts the meetings where they talk about it. (Although presidents do run on doing a lot of things they don't have the power to do.)

The President writes the budget. You can find the budgets here: https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023 Congress passes nonbinding budget resolutions on themselves and binding appropriations bills on the Treasury.

No, the executive writes and releases a budget for PR reasons which Congress then receives, tears up into little pieces, and writes their own.

If the presidency and Senate are controlled by opposing parties the Senate wins.

Remember when Trump's proposed budget just defunded Meals on Wheels? That didn't actually happen because it's not real.

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#57

Post by GalenErso »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54
GalenErso wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disregarding the Court is a constitutional crisis. Then a constitutional crisis there shall be. Words don't scare me. If a "constitutional crisis" means the government _doesn't_ default on its debt and some politicians and pundits cry foul, and nothing else changes under the heavens, then let's have a "constitutional crisis". > On the other hand, we have the President unilaterally overruling the Congress and the Co…

> Then a constitutional crisis there shall be. Words don't scare me In what universe is constitutional crisis, the suspension of the rule of law, not cause a default? You’re trading a minor infraction for a major one. This is a false economy. > Congress can impeach and convict if it's such a big deal. Until they do Police can arrest me if murder is such a big deal.

I can think of a few situations where taking the life of another human being would be justified, as a last resort.

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#58

Post by JumpCrisscross »

GalenErso wrote: post #57
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then a constitutional crisis there shall be. Words don't scare me In what universe is constitutional crisis, the suspension of the rule of law, not cause a default? You’re trading a minor infraction for a major one. This is a false economy. > Congress can impeach and convict if it's such a big deal. Until they do Police can arrest me if murder is such a big deal.

I can think of a few situations where taking the life of another human being would be justified, as a last resort.

> can think of a few situations where taking the life of another human being would be justified, as a last resort

Straw man. We aren’t saying there couldn’t be a situation where causing social and economic meltdown is valid. If America is threatening global nuclear war, yes, causing it to burn into a deep depression and possibly dictatorship is worth risking. You’re doing that to avoid technical default, which would occur anyway in case of a constitutional crisis.

Earlier, you conditioned: “if a "constitutional crisis" means the government _doesn't_ default on its debt…” That isn’t a valid condition. If the Congress and Court say debt limit, and the President tries to override, you get a constitutional crisis and legal default, on America’s debt, but also everything else.

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#59

Post by ProjectArcturis »

GalenErso wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How else is the executive supposed to check the judicial? Pardons and nominating judges. Disregarding the Court is a constitutional crisis. > would be an even worse precedent for the Supreme Court to force the government to default on its debt On one hand, we have the Court allowing the President to overrule the Congress. Two branches agree. On the other hand, we have the President unilaterally overruling the Congr…

> Disregarding the Court is a constitutional crisis. Then a constitutional crisis there shall be. Words don't scare me. If a "constitutional crisis" means the government _doesn't_ default on its debt and some politicians and pundits cry foul, and nothing else changes under the heavens, then let's have a "constitutional crisis". > On the other hand, we have the President unilaterally overruling the Congress and the Co…

Take two seconds to think about what happens when a president you don't like starts using this power. Trump: "The Supreme Court made the wrong decision in denying my vote fraud lawsuit. It's unconstitutional to allow voter fraud to determine an election. Therefore I'm declaring myself President for a second term."

Re: U.S. Could Run Out of Cash by June 1, Yellen Warns

#60

Post by HDThoreaun »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #55
peyton wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The President writes the budget. You can find the budgets here: https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023 Congress passes nonbinding budget resolutions on themselves and binding appropriations bills on the Treasury.

> President writes the budget The President proposed budgets. The House and the Congress have the power of the purse.

The president is part of the legislative branch because they have veto power. It's really not as simple as "the president writes the budget" or "congress writes the budget". The entire legislative branch writes it together.
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