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Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

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Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#51

On this note, the data-set available if you start collecting today is tainted with experimental AI content. Not the biggest issue right now but as time goes on this problem will get worse and we'll be basing our simulations of intelligence on the output of our simulations of intelligence, a brave new abstraction.

100% -- I also see this as a big and emerging problem that future researchers and practitioners will have to deal with.

Posted some thoughts previously here --

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32577822

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33869402

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#52
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still an order of magnitude more organic text. Ilya Sutskever recently said it was still ok. After that, we got to use reinforcement learning (agent GPTs with tools) to generate and self-validate more examples. One "simple" application would be to build a full index of facts in the whole training corpus. Just pass each document to GPT and ask it to extract the facts. Then create an inverted index, with each…

After the low hanging fruit - the high quality data such as scientific papers, libgen, stackexchange, wikipedia, etc — has been exhausted, that’s it. There’s no more data of that kind. There’s not 9 other wikipedias or 9 other libgens. There is only a certain quantity of high-quality codified knowledge in existence and models need to be able to deal with that constraint. Feeding it more and more lower quality text is…

There's a reason there are so many review papers - which are just synthesis of a topic in a certain period of time. Second order analysis is useful content, not junk. It can cross reference facts and detect inconsistencies. Combining multiple sources can lead to new insights and learning the trends.

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#53
post #18

If we play our cards right, AI could free people up for more valuable pursuits, and the pace of human information production would increase by orders of magnitude

> free people up for more valuable pursuits It won't roll like that. AI will empower people to be more productive but won't free people up because it makes mistakes, can't help itself, and cannot function autonomously. There is no LLM application that is safe for autonomous usage today. How can we go from 0 to 1? I don't see a path. Self driving cars still can't reach L5 to completely remove the need for driver. But…

Functioning autonomously is not the level needed to free up people.

If your department gets a bunch of entry-level hires or interns, that frees up people in your organization even if they make mistakes, require supervision and can't function autonomously. Similarly, if an AI system can do half of a particular job under human supervision, it can free up (or make redundant) half of the people doing that job.

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We won't hit the wall. Somewhat counterintuitively, scaling datasets is the lazy and economical approach. If you have the compute already, might as well dig an OOM more text tokens. But there are other sources of data, and slightly different ways to utilize it. Multimodality, in very large training runs, will almost inevitably increase sample efficiency (for obvious reasons of context richness), synthetic data is alr…

I don't think your "synthetic data on ImageNet" reference shows "synthetic data is already very effective". Since many people won't read the paper, here's what it says: Training ResNet-50 on real ImageNet gives 73.09% top-1 accuracy, while training it on synthetic data (same resolution, same number of images) generated by this work gives 64.96%, which is SOTA compared to previous work's 63.02%. Therefore, synthetic d…

I wonder how much you can improve that scaling factor by using data augmentation techniques (noise, rescaling, recropping, rotation, changing colors, using normal maps, etc).

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#55
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still an order of magnitude more organic text. Ilya Sutskever recently said it was still ok. After that, we got to use reinforcement learning (agent GPTs with tools) to generate and self-validate more examples. One "simple" application would be to build a full index of facts in the whole training corpus. Just pass each document to GPT and ask it to extract the facts. Then create an inverted index, with each…

After the low hanging fruit - the high quality data such as scientific papers, libgen, stackexchange, wikipedia, etc — has been exhausted, that’s it. There’s no more data of that kind. There’s not 9 other wikipedias or 9 other libgens. There is only a certain quantity of high-quality codified knowledge in existence and models need to be able to deal with that constraint. Feeding it more and more lower quality text is…

> There’s not 9 other wikipedias

By the way, I wonder how much you could get from "history" data: wikipedia history pages, talk pages, commits diffs on github, pull request discussions, etc.

AFAIK so far we've only been using the finished code "artifacts", but if we're desperate for more tokens to train on, we might get a lot of mileage from just "all different versions of this dataset over time".

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#56
We just are not thinking wide enough:

* Train on all of television history, and streaming content.

* Train on YouTube.

* I suspect at some point we'll have a recording of most of people's lives, e.g. live-streaming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestreaming#Lifecasting

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#57

On this note, the data-set available if you start collecting today is tainted with experimental AI content. Not the biggest issue right now but as time goes on this problem will get worse and we'll be basing our simulations of intelligence on the output of our simulations of intelligence, a brave new abstraction.

> as time goes on this problem will get worse and we'll be basing our simulations of intelligence on the output of our simulations of intelligence, a brave new abstraction.

If we build a system where we feed the exhaust of an AI to another one at each step, should we call it the AI Centipede, like in the movies? https://m.imdb.com/list/ls064583741/

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#58
post #42

This is dumb. An individual human takes in more data than modern LLMs do. https://open.substack.com/pub/echoesofid/p/why-llms-struggle...

>Just the vision data of a baby’s first year easily adds up to petabytes What encoding is this??

> > Just the vision data of a baby’s first year easily adds up to petabytes

Just to add to this, the human brain also encodes quite a lot of evolutionary lessons. We didn't have to learn edge detectors.

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#59
post #18

If we play our cards right, AI could free people up for more valuable pursuits, and the pace of human information production would increase by orders of magnitude

> free people up for more valuable pursuits It won't roll like that. AI will empower people to be more productive but won't free people up because it makes mistakes, can't help itself, and cannot function autonomously. There is no LLM application that is safe for autonomous usage today. How can we go from 0 to 1? I don't see a path. Self driving cars still can't reach L5 to completely remove the need for driver. But…

> Self driving cars still can't reach L5 to completely remove the need for driver.

This will probably be (or already has been) solved by large transformer models or their successor architectures.

What was missing was common sense reasoning about what they see. We now have that.

Re: Will we run out of ML data? Evidence from projecting dataset size trends (2022)

#60
post #37

Brute force approaches always hit some wall. ML will be no different. In the decades to come it us quite likely that algorithms will develop in directions orthogonal to current approaches. The idea that you improve performance by throwing gazillions of data into gargantuan models might be even come to be seen as laughable. Keep in mind (pun) that the only real intelligence here is us, and we are pretty good at figuri…

AI had a winter of many decades because the hardware wasn't there and there were better alternatives, especially for neural nets. Now ChatGPT etc comes out, with unbelievable results, decades in the making. And a couple months we're already writing it off because of the next limitation? Maybe let's give it more than a month or two to figure out if we even need all that data. I heard they're already talking about tryi…

Well I imagine the commenter actually understands the domain, the techniques, and is making an informed opinion.

It is possible to form opinions by knowing the domain, rather than drawing an exponential curve of newspaper headlines which trails off "..."

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