Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

psmag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 76 posts

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#51

Post by Mizza »

vidarh wrote: post #42
Mizza wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, countries always have this, they're called taxpayers. If you invest in them, they can pay you more taxes than you put in. If you make their lives good, then people can even make _more_ people! Instead, Norway invests in American businesses in order to get that slow trickle, so instead of investing in their own people and industries, they have a slow trickle which can gives pension to a population in decline.

Investment within Norway is high enough that putting more in would drive inflation, at which point you might as well be burning the money, so it's a balancing act. And the notion that improving living conditions - Norway is already at or near the top of nearly every quality of life measure - increases fertility is directly the opposite of real life global trends.

It's too exhausting to keep going. It's essentially a religious belief here, for some backwards reason a nation of mortgage holders is fervently obsessed with keeping inflation down and making money by investing in anybody but themselves. If you point out this might not be an optimal medium term strategy, somebody will pull out a list, point at somewhere near the top and say hey, we're doing better than Sweden.

It's good. I think it could _amazing_ if some of the political orthodoxy was reexamined.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#52

Post by [deleted] »

hkon wrote: post #36
tpmx wrote: post #4

Disclosure: I'm a Swede who previously worked in various primarily Norwegian-owned software companies for two decades. I'm mostly happy about how it went. I also got some insights about Norway along the way via the 100+ trips to Oslo during that last decade when I had an engineering management role. That travel schedule was exhausting. My pet peeve about Norway and oil: How very few people ever call them out on being…

Disclosure, I'm a Norwegian. Saudi Arabia of the north. Well. Actually I think Sweden might be a top contender for that name.

[deleted]

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#53

Post by [deleted] »

Mizza wrote: post #41
kwhitefoot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many services you'd think would be better just aren't Perhaps you could enlighten us about which services are lacking and how they are so much better in those countries that just spent the North Sea oil revenue internally?

Today, I'd pick Posten. It seems like you're a proud nationalist and I don't want to start a fight.

[deleted]

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#54

Post by Mizza »

ubercore wrote: post #47
Mizza wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, I'd pick Posten. It seems like you're a proud nationalist and I don't want to start a fight.

Posten is a mixed bag. Ease of access at places like grocery stores, and general service is great. But delivery can often be weirdly delayed. Sometimes we get notice of bills _after_ they're due. But overall, I prefer it to the US postal service I'm used to, so it doesn't feel like a slam dunk example to me. Spend some of that money on training and paying more GPs, and you'd have my interest...

Maybe I'm just really unlucky, and I didn't really want to get into that guy about wait times at hospitals or whatever, but I find Posten to be just _spectacularly_ and often hilariously terrible.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#55

Post by ubercore »

Mizza wrote: post #54
ubercore wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posten is a mixed bag. Ease of access at places like grocery stores, and general service is great. But delivery can often be weirdly delayed. Sometimes we get notice of bills _after_ they're due. But overall, I prefer it to the US postal service I'm used to, so it doesn't feel like a slam dunk example to me. Spend some of that money on training and paying more GPs, and you'd have my interest...

Maybe I'm just really unlucky, and I didn't really want to get into that guy about wait times at hospitals or whatever, but I find Posten to be just _spectacularly_ and often hilariously terrible.

PostNord is about a million times worse for me.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#56

Post by MichaelZuo »

Mizza wrote: post #51
vidarh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investment within Norway is high enough that putting more in would drive inflation, at which point you might as well be burning the money, so it's a balancing act. And the notion that improving living conditions - Norway is already at or near the top of nearly every quality of life measure - increases fertility is directly the opposite of real life global trends.

It's too exhausting to keep going. It's essentially a religious belief here, for some backwards reason a nation of mortgage holders is fervently obsessed with keeping inflation down and making money by investing in anybody but themselves. If you point out this might not be an optimal medium term strategy, somebody will pull out a list, point at somewhere near the top and say hey, we're doing better than Sweden. It's…

You seem to have a religious belief here too, that the average Norwegian resident can be arbitrarily improved by spending more money on them.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#57

Post by googlryas »

whinenot wrote: post #46
jutrewag wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Middle East is very rich with a very high standard of living. A lot of those countries have no income tax and basically free medical and utilities. Much better than what Norway offers.

Is the standard of living really much better in the Middle East than what Norway offers? I haven't seen any exposés on modern slavery in Norway like I have on the Middle East fiefdoms, but maybe those canny vikings are just better at hiding it?

I think importantly, the slave-like people in eg Qatar are not Qataris, they're Filipinos, Indians, Bangladeshis, etc.

But, one wonders why a very rich society would need to resort to enslaving people in order to save a buck.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#58

Post by tpmx »

oh_sigh wrote: post #14
tpmx wrote: post #4

Disclosure: I'm a Swede who previously worked in various primarily Norwegian-owned software companies for two decades. I'm mostly happy about how it went. I also got some insights about Norway along the way via the 100+ trips to Oslo during that last decade when I had an engineering management role. That travel schedule was exhausting. My pet peeve about Norway and oil: How very few people ever call them out on being…

I agree, and have noticed that discrepancy, but I guess it is better than double dipping - profiting from environment-destroying products, and then investing those profits into environment-destroying products. I can't really blame the Norwegians though - even if they care about the environment greatly, it would be hard for anyone to have a lifestyle based around their $250k income and to go back to a lifestyle based…

Well, I blame them because they are very, very strongly (and competently) pushing the PR message that they are clean.

It's quite simple - they should pick one: stop pumping up old fossil remains to sell to keep up their luxurious lifestyle or stop bragging about how clean they are.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#59

Post by avtar »

googlryas wrote: post #57
whinenot wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the standard of living really much better in the Middle East than what Norway offers? I haven't seen any exposés on modern slavery in Norway like I have on the Middle East fiefdoms, but maybe those canny vikings are just better at hiding it?

I think importantly, the slave-like people in eg Qatar are not Qataris, they're Filipinos, Indians, Bangladeshis, etc. But, one wonders why a very rich society would need to resort to enslaving people in order to save a buck.

Greed.

Also, I’m not sure how much has changed since I left that part of the world, but for decades the blue collar workers (Filipinos, Indians, Pakistanis, etc.) were considered lower tier class in rich Gulf countries. Probably easier to exploit those who one feels are less deserving.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#60

Post by HPsquared »

knodi123 wrote: post #43
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's the real nub of the "resource curse"-- any effort to improve the lives of its citizens will be wrong and bad, so just invest in foreign assets and otherwise preserve things as they are.

Nasruddin was riding his donkey to the market, with his son walking along beside him. As he passed a group of travelers going in the opposite direction, he overheard one of them saying "look at this cruel old man, riding in comfort while his son has to walk." Caring very much for the opinion of others, he got off of the donkey and told his son to ride. He passed another group of travelers, and overheard one whisper "…

This is a classic to remember if you get negative feedback on the internet. There's always a negative interpretation.
Post reply on HN