Live data from Hacker News

The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

d43.me

51–60 of 103 posts

Re: The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

#51
You used to be able to get rid of this (or at least dramatically reduce it) by turning off "ignore accidental input". Sadly, 10.7 doesn't appear to have an equivalent, at least in the UI.

Changing that option changed a lot. I loved it. But 10.7 is a bit better at managing it than it used to be, or it feels that way to me, so I don't mind as much as I did.

Re: The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

#52
post #25

Wild guess at where it might come from: 32ms divided by 4 is 0.008s which gives us 125Hz (the typical mouse sample rate). So my guess is that some form of mouse movement analysis (like mouse smoothing) is working on at least four samples (so that it can statistically mean something), rolling. Why it does so might be that 32ms is the right time to evaluate the intent of a typical human interaction with a pointer, mayb…

When working on drivers for capacitive touchscreens (of which trackpads are a pretty close sibling), we put all kinds of IIR filtering in there to smooth out the cursor and usually a variance filter to take away noise. Since those filters (esp. IIR) rely on data from previous scans, they naturally introduce a delay into the chain. Usually this is all on the sensing side and not the host side. Perhaps there's some tra…

Indeed there exist this low-level filtering, but what I suppose is at a higher level. Say you have a button in the top left quadrant and your mouse around the bottom right corner. Now you move the mouse to point over the button. In doing so your initial move is quite ample towards the button. From speed and direction the OS could infer that you want to reach the button and ever so slightly steer your move towards it. This would be reevaluated at each 'step' across the move, giving a smooth, spline-like movement, and as you get closer to the button, its virtual size would grow ever so slightly, so that if you rush to the click and undershoot or overshoot it by a few pixels, the click still get registered. Even when there's nothing of interest on screen this system would still be registering samples, but doing NOOP, hence the preservation of the delay in a game situation.

Such a scenario would be impossible to do so close to the hardware as it would have no knowledge of the GUI. I have not even the foggiest idea if OSX does something even close to that but hey, you'll never know. It could just as well be some eager host-side smoothing to accommodate for vintage or unknown mice.

Re: The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

#54
post #10

Longtime Mac user here... for what it's worth, I don't know what the OP is referring to. I use both Mac and Windows regularly (home vs work), and I don't see a noticeable difference. Maybe I've just gotten used to it. Definitely isn't a problem for me.

Do you use a mouse? I've never been able to notice it with a trackpad (because trackpads are inherently less precise anyway, and seldom used for gaming). It has been painfully noticeable on both Macbook Pros I've owned (one circa Tiger, the other circa Lion).

Re: The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

#55
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're playing a game like that you become highly attuned to the characteristics of your input device. I find the same thing happens when playing console games and the "look" stick acceleration curves are completely different between games. It is disorienting until you get your bearings and adjust to the speed and acceleration of each input system. Just as switching between Windows and OS X means switching from…

I play TF2 almost hours every day and I'm often in the top 5 players in the server when I play sniper or soldier. I play in Mac OS X and I use a Razer Deathadder 3G Spawn. No extra drivers. However, I tried wiggling the mouse pointer and I can't see a lag on my iMac, but if I grab a Finder-window and wiggle it left-right very fast I think there's actually some lag. I can't really compare TF2 to Windows since in Windo…

I really wonder if the "input lag" problem is as simple as a design difference. For instance, if on Windows the mouse position is polled immediately prior to rendering the screen but on OS X it's polled immediately after you would get a different feel.

That would introduce about 8ms of "lag" if you're really dialled in and able to perceive it.

Re: The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

#56
I'm not entirely convinced that lag is the only problem, but I will say that the mouse problems are the primary reason I sold my current-gen 13" Macbook Pro a month after buying it. It was simply unusable with a mouse.

The reason I'm not convinced is that my old Macbook Pro running Tiger had the exact same issues, but a proprietary mouse drive called USB Overdrive X allowed me to remove the acceleration, and the mouse felt perfect. That driver apparently didn't work in Lion (or Snow Leopard), and every single script/setting/utility I could find for supposedly disabling acceleration didn't change anything except perhaps speed (sensitivity).

Re: The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

#57
post #54
post #10

Longtime Mac user here... for what it's worth, I don't know what the OP is referring to. I use both Mac and Windows regularly (home vs work), and I don't see a noticeable difference. Maybe I've just gotten used to it. Definitely isn't a problem for me.

Do you use a mouse? I've never been able to notice it with a trackpad (because trackpads are inherently less precise anyway, and seldom used for gaming). It has been painfully noticeable on both Macbook Pros I've owned (one circa Tiger, the other circa Lion).

I was thinking the same thing. I've tried the Magic Mouse, Logitech Anywhere, and Logitech Marathon all to no avail. I returned them all eventually and now I'm back to the trackpad.

Just from anecdotal evidence from someone who can detect the lag with 3 different mice, it's not there with the trackpad.

Re: The cause for all your Mac OS X mouse annoyances

#60
post #25

Wild guess at where it might come from: 32ms divided by 4 is 0.008s which gives us 125Hz (the typical mouse sample rate). So my guess is that some form of mouse movement analysis (like mouse smoothing) is working on at least four samples (so that it can statistically mean something), rolling. Why it does so might be that 32ms is the right time to evaluate the intent of a typical human interaction with a pointer, mayb…

I was recently using an algorithm for determining control points for a bezier curve. You need 4 total points to accurately determine the curve, maybe there is a similar curve that apple is solving for?

http://www.antigrain.com/research/bezier_interpolation/

// Assume we need to calculate the control

// points between (x1,y1) and (x2,y2).

// Then x0,y0 - the previous vertex,

// x3,y3 - the next one.

Post reply on HN