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Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

techcrunch.com

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Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#51

Post by justrealist »

ch4s3 wrote: post #39
justrealist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax credits are not bailouts.

Money is fungible and government handouts are government handouts. Moreover, many of those subsidies are in the form of bonds, low interest loans, and so on not just tax credits.

If you think even about the etymology of "hand-out", it is not in fact the government handing out money — the company is handing less money to the government.

When the federal government gives a tax credit for installing residential solar panels, it is not a "consumer bailout" or "welfare".

We have a perfectly good term for this, which is "tax credit", because that is what it is.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#52

Post by itsoktocry »

boc wrote: post #24
hcurtiss wrote: post #3

Combined with the investments in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Michigan, this is "bet the company" levels of investment. I pray for Ford's sake they picked the right horse (vis-à-vis, e.g., hydrogen or ammonia).

Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. EVs are downright fun to drive. Sure they don't have the handling of a lightweight Porsche, but being able to walk a Mustang GT with an F-150 lightning on the highway drag race is something all the "truck guys" can brag about. That's a very important selling factor, especially from a test-drive perspective. The biggest hurdle i…

>Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration.

If people really cared about acceleration, why would they buy standard versions of the Model 3/Y (which outsell performance versions)? It's quick, but there are cheaper vehicles that outperform it 0-60.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#53

Post by brailsafe »

giobox wrote: post #50
wmeredith wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the carbon emissions match, the drivetrain in an ICE vehicle contains 2,000+ moving parts typically, whereas the drivetrain in an EV contains around 20. The benefits of TVs range beyond direct carbon emissions from the power unit.

This is the primary reason I wouldn't go back to combustion. The running costs of electric vehicles are absurdly low at times. You can put 50k-100k miles on most EVs on sale today having only bought cabin air filters, tires and wiper blades in addition to the cost of the electricity - thats largely it!

What do you do after? Are you talking used or new?

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#54

Post by Alupis »

zamnos wrote: post #46
waiseristy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only people driving F-150s around job sites are management with a stipend. Half ton trucks are a lot less capable then most people think, and are primarily targeted to the former of the two groups you mention

What do they drive instead then?

The plain white worksite trucks you see are F-250's and bigger, mostly.

The point was, majority of the F-150's you see cruising around are used maybe once a year to pickup potted garden plants. People like the idea of having a truck, but do not actually need a truck.

That's who the Lightning is for, despite it's marketing for professionals, jobsites and the like.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#55

Post by itsoktocry »

grecy wrote: post #15

it will begin modernizing the site in the second quarter of 2024 Ford has said it wants the production capacity to sell 2 million EVs a year globally by the end of 2026 So Ford's stated goal is to produce the same number of EVs in 2027 that Tesla will produce in 2023.

>So Ford's stated goal is to produce the same number of EVs in 2027 that Tesla will produce in 2023.

And infinity more ICE vehicles than Tesla will build in 2023. What is your point?

It doesn't matter what any non-Tesla company says, the Tesla fans will say it's not enough or unattainable.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#56

Post by Alupis »

rootusrootus wrote: post #30
Alupis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types of F-150 buyers - those who enjoy the idea of having a truck and those who use a truck. F-150 Lightning seems to fulfill nearly ever checkbox wishlist item for the first group... but not much for the second group. I wager we'll see a lot more Lightnings driving around urban/suburban areas than rural or jobsites.

> There are two types of F-150 buyers The F-series isn't the most popular vehicle in America because there are only two types of buyers. Roughly, the answer to "who is a truck person?" is "everyone."

You unintentionally make my point. If "everyone" is a truck person then no one is a truck person.

Majority of people who own trucks do not use it as a truck... rather it's used like a glorified car or SUV. That clearly makes for two types of truck buyers, with two types of needs and wants.

An electric truck is not for professionals - it's for your office commuter who likes the idea of a truck. The Lightning fits that person perfectly, even if it's not a "good truck" by truck standards.

The problem was Ford billed it as a worksite truck for professionals.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#57

Post by boc »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #35
boc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. EVs are downright fun to drive. Sure they don't have the handling of a lightweight Porsche, but being able to walk a Mustang GT with an F-150 lightning on the highway drag race is something all the "truck guys" can brag about. That's a very important selling factor, especially from a test-drive perspective. The biggest hurdle i…

Sorry, but that is the dumbest take I ever read.

Haha you clearly don't understand American car culture.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDpQpcPpuc

7M views in 3 months. Americans LOVE seeing which car is faster.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#58

Post by itsoktocry »

waiseristy wrote: post #44
Alupis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types of F-150 buyers - those who enjoy the idea of having a truck and those who use a truck. F-150 Lightning seems to fulfill nearly ever checkbox wishlist item for the first group... but not much for the second group. I wager we'll see a lot more Lightnings driving around urban/suburban areas than rural or jobsites.

The only people driving F-150s around job sites are management with a stipend. Half ton trucks are a lot less capable then most people think, and are primarily targeted to the former of the two groups you mention

>Half ton trucks are a lot less capable then most people think

What do you think people are doing on job sites that a half-ton can't handle?

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#59

Post by travisporter »

itsoktocry wrote: post #52
boc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. EVs are downright fun to drive. Sure they don't have the handling of a lightweight Porsche, but being able to walk a Mustang GT with an F-150 lightning on the highway drag race is something all the "truck guys" can brag about. That's a very important selling factor, especially from a test-drive perspective. The biggest hurdle i…

> Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. If people really cared about acceleration, why would they buy standard versions of the Model 3/Y (which outsell performance versions)? It's quick, but there are cheaper vehicles that outperform it 0-60.

You sure? The standard Tesla models are quite fast for price point. the standard hyundai, kia, ford, vw crossover EVs are slower, but faster than their ICE counterparts

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#60

Post by itsoktocry »

joewadcan wrote: post #47
DrThunder wrote: post #10

Dumb. Ford's sales are mostly their F-150. Very few people want a lightning and very few can afford them. Imagine dumping $60-$100k+ on something that's worse than it's cheaper ICE version in every way. Also, the used EV market is going to be trash. These are throw away vehicles. The only way they keep selling is government force mandates and rebates.

Better towing, lower maintenance... seems like ICE vehicles are going to need the government subsidy if anyone will even want them

>Better towing

What are you basing this on? Real world tests of the F150 EV seem to show it gets horrible efficiency while towing.

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