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Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

nicole.express

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Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#51

Post by JohnBooty »

dylan604 wrote: post #20
vlunkr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very popular right now, but it's really hard to tell if it's just a fad. Motion controls had a huge wave of popularity starting with the Wii, but that died off. It will be interesting to see.

>Motion controls had a huge wave of popularity starting with the Wii, but that died off. is there a consensus to why this is? was it just a fad/phase, or is it just too physically demanding so people literally and figuratively tired of it?

    or is it just too physically demanding so 
    people literally and figuratively tired of it?
Partly that. Playing something like Zelda with motion controls gets insane pretty fast. Think about playing Zelda for an hour and how many sword slashes you do.

Also, existing control methods (gamepads, keyboards, mice) are really good. If you think about it, they are miracles of efficiency and accuracy. Compared to motion controls, you do an order or two of magnitude less work, and in return you get an order or two of magnitude more precision in many cases.

There are some genres that are fun with Wiimotes. Wii Sports is always fun for short bursts at a party. Also arcade light gun style shooting games are just phenomenal. But in general, yeecccch.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#52

Post by Melraidin »

computronus wrote: post #50
Melraidin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it this book? https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1990755 I hacked up a Powerglove to connect to my PC. Always wanted to get the Sega glasses too but didn't have the resources at the time.

I think it was this one, The Virtual Reality Construction Kit by Gradecki. The cover looks very familiar! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3165591-the-virtual-real...

Didn't come across that one at the time. Wish I'd tried more to get a homebrew VR setup going.

I still have that VR book in my basement. Along with my first computer book, Practical Things To Do With A Microcomputer. Usborne has these online: https://usborne.com/ca_en/books/computer-and-coding-books

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#53

Post by robin_reala »

vlunkr wrote: post #15
edent wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until they overcome the need for the viewer to do something . Moving from mono sound to stereo doesn't require anything of the listener. Going from black and white to colour doesn't require you wear special equipment. But 3D? You have to put on special glasses which you also have to remember to charge. Oh, and you can't look at other things while you're using them. There were some passive 3D displays (the Nintend…

The other thing about mono->stereo and monochrome->color is that they were backwards compatible. And even when creators adopted the new style, they didn't fundamentally change what they were doing. With VR, the majority of popular games can't be ported 1:1 to VR. It either adds nothing so it's not worth it, or motion sickness requires removing or reinventing movement. It's almost like starting game design over from s…

Racing games are an obvious exception: you get the benefit of increased immersion without needing new control schemes or gameplay.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#54

Post by Firmwarrior »

ytreyrty wrote: post #16
edent wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until they overcome the need for the viewer to do something . Moving from mono sound to stereo doesn't require anything of the listener. Going from black and white to colour doesn't require you wear special equipment. But 3D? You have to put on special glasses which you also have to remember to charge. Oh, and you can't look at other things while you're using them. There were some passive 3D displays (the Nintend…

yeah on the VR side apparently im supposed to undertake a training regimen to be able to tolerate it without feeling sick. this is on top of the already massive commitment of wearing a giant helmet on my head. of course none of this is mentioned on the product page. (to be fair sony has a very generous return policy on these, probably for that reason) it's unfortunate because VR GT7 was really cool until i started fe…

For anyone else reading this: Be careful, you have to stop before you start feeling a little sick, or you'll induce a semi-permanent adversion to VR

If you try to fight through the nausea at all, it'll get worse every time until you feel sick just thinking about VR

(That's the obnoxious training regimen he's talking about, and it sucks for sure)

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#55

Post by grumbel »

ytreyrty wrote: post #8

will 3D/VR ever really become mainstream? i recently bought a PSVR2, the tech seemed amazing but i had to return it due to horrible motion sickness. we're at almost 30 years of the tech still not being ready for prime time.

Given how things have been going, I don't think VR will hit mainstream until the resolution (PPD) of the headsets can compete with a TV/monitor. One of the main problem with VR right now is that it cuts you off from all the 2D content out there, the resolution is too low to browse the Web and watching movies in what is essentially less than 720p isn't great either. On top of that, most VR headsets just don't work as full monitor/TV replacement to begin with, due to not having a plain old HDMI input. The software side is also severely lacking, while it's possible to bring 2D content into VR on PC, it's extremely clunky and not well supported at all. Microsoft's WMR tried to build a "Windows desktop for VR", but with that dead now, it'll take years before anybody will try that again.

The lack of resolution could of course be overcome by native VR content, that is build towards the other strengths of those headset. But there just doesn't seem enough interest in the industry to actually go that route, you can still count the total amount of good AAA content for VR on one hand. That's not enough to attract gamer's in mass and in turn developers aren't all that interested either. Xbox still staying away from VR isn't helping either, as that cuts off a large chunk of the potential market too.

As for motion sickness, that's a somewhat unsolvable problem. Everything that makes the virtual body move without your real body moving will make people sick, no matter how good the headset is. One solution is to not move the virtual body (teleport locomotion), but that drastically limits what games you can do in VR and has been largely abandoned again by most games. The other alternative is to just get used to it, most people can adopt to some degree, but it can take time. I think the only real solution here is a generational shift, once every kid grew up with VR, the motion sickness issue might fade away, but that'll still take many years or even decades.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#56

Post by Firmwarrior »

bullen wrote: post #41
tomxor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can attest to quest2 not being motion sickness inducing, although I don't have any comparative experience. There is also the issue of subjective motion sickness sensitivity that seems to conflate comparisons, some seem to get sick in any VR with certain games or environments, and everyone gets sick in some specific VR headsets. If you don't get motion sick easily, quest2 is pretty comfortable, and once you find som…

I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell. Should have said "custom", but then that could also be misunderstood. In my experience (I made the first VR MMO: http://aeonalpha.com , with the wrong programming language!) hig…

You seem to be implying that it's nigh-impossible to write games that can reliably run at 90+ FPS and no dropped frames with a game engine because the game scripting logic runs in an interpreter with garbage collection

It's definitely worth being careful to avoid GC causing frame drops, but I'm pretty sure there are a lot of good-performing VR games written in Unity

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#57

Post by trafficante »

bullen wrote: post #41
tomxor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can attest to quest2 not being motion sickness inducing, although I don't have any comparative experience. There is also the issue of subjective motion sickness sensitivity that seems to conflate comparisons, some seem to get sick in any VR with certain games or environments, and everyone gets sick in some specific VR headsets. If you don't get motion sick easily, quest2 is pretty comfortable, and once you find som…

I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell. Should have said "custom", but then that could also be misunderstood. In my experience (I made the first VR MMO: http://aeonalpha.com , with the wrong programming language!) hig…

> I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell.

Fascinating info, thanks for sharing. I was aware of the two Cryengine games and the omnipresence of Epic’s engines, but I didn’t realize it was that lopsided.

Absolutely agree with the claim that “non-standard locomotion” is best for avoiding VR sickness - games like Gorilla Tag and Echo Arena really have a sort of “presence” factor that goes beyond 99% of VR titles.

Strongly disagree on the claim that VR sickness is a widespread issue - outside of Boomers/GenX who didn’t grow up playing video games. But I digress since I’m sure other posters will be jumping on the claim haha.

Btw, Tea for God is in the App Lab [1] so you shouldn’t need to mess around with ADB or Sidequest. If you enjoy the unique “pseudo infinite space” thing it has going on, you’d probably also enjoy “Eye of the Temple”. It’s currently on Steam[2] and in development for Quest, but it does the infinite spaces thing with an Indiana Jones style twist and is quite enjoyable experiencing the clever ways the dev came up with to trick you into thinking you’re physically exploring a huge space while actually remaining mostly still in reality.

[1] https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/3762343440541585/

[2] https://store.steampowered.com/app/589940/Eye_of_the_Temple/

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#59

Post by bullen »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #56
bullen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell. Should have said "custom", but then that could also be misunderstood. In my experience (I made the first VR MMO: http://aeonalpha.com , with the wrong programming language!) hig…

You seem to be implying that it's nigh-impossible to write games that can reliably run at 90+ FPS and no dropped frames with a game engine because the game scripting logic runs in an interpreter with garbage collection It's definitely worth being careful to avoid GC causing frame drops, but I'm pretty sure there are a lot of good-performing VR games written in Unity

Unity is a over-engineered pile of &%$#. And now I'm being too nice.

And it's getting worse by the day.

The company is bankrupt, and when interest rates go up further all your invested time will go poof in a second.

Own your time, and control your future: when you use Unity you learn very little about how the GPU works, which kinda is the point, but since OpenGL 3 is the final 3D interface with VAO you only need to learn it once for eternity.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#60

Post by bullen »

anonred wrote: post #45
bullen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell. Should have said "custom", but then that could also be misunderstood. In my experience (I made the first VR MMO: http://aeonalpha.com , with the wrong programming language!) hig…

I think both your premise and conclusion is wrong. You make it sound like VR motion sickness is the norm, but it’s really not. Tons of people play VR games every day with smooth locomotion, on “potato VM” game engines, at 72 or 90 Hz without issue. Even if perf were a widespread issue, building a custom game engine for VR probably shouldn’t be your first choice when there’s so many easier ways to optimize.

If that was true, I think adoption would be way higher by this point.
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