Electricity Prices by Country • Hacker News Board

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#51

Post by tfourb » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

If you are asking yourself why prices in Germany are so high: It's mostly the price surge of natural gas after Russia cut off deliveries in retaliation to sanctions in the wake of the war against Ukraine.

About 50% of the price per kw/h in Germany is set by an auction system. Electricity providers are bidding at any given point in time to provide energy for the grid. The lowest price per kw/h wins. BUT: because no one provider can satisfy the demand on their own, all bids that are necessary to satisfy the demand are considered and the final price is set by the most expensive bid within that range. So even if a wind turbine can provide energy at 9 cents per kw/h, if current demand requires electricity from a natural gas plant at 20 cents per kw/h, all providers within the bracket will get those 20 cents per kw/h from the consumer.

Natural gas has become quite expensive for the past year in Germany and for various reasons, natural gas plants are often the marginal providers in the German network.

The other half of the final price is split about 50/50 between the owners of the network and taxes.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#52

Post by secretsatan » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

secretsatan wrote: post #23

yuuuuyu wrote: post #14

This is overly simplified. A few aspects come to mind that have huge effects, in orders of magnitude: * Price differences during day/week/seasons. Cold day? Electricity can be 2-3x higher than the day before. Lots of sun/wind? Price plummets. ... * Price differences in regions. Norway, Sweden, Germany, those alone have huge differences in electricity prices depending on where you live. * Pricing relative to economic…

They do have a graph of proportion of income spent on electricity. I see Switzerland is near the top, but as you mention, there is quite a lot of variation by kanton here. Oth, one of the first i noticed moving here was how much cheaper electricity was compared to the uk

As an aside, not sure of the exact year, sometime around the 2000s, uk made it possible to buy your electricity from any provider in the uk, despite living in cambridge, i chose swalec(wales), and they didn’t bill me for 2 years and then i changed address, in that case, uk was ridiculously cheap

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#53

Post by toyg » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 7:44 PM UTC

fulafel wrote: post #47

Are these end user consumer prices including taxes and transmission?

Seem to be for businesses. Definitely doesn't tally with average consumer prices i recently observed in UK (higher than what I see here) and Italy (much lower).

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#54

Post by mpreda » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 7:57 PM UTC

tfourb wrote: post #51

If you are asking yourself why prices in Germany are so high: It's mostly the price surge of natural gas after Russia cut off deliveries in retaliation to sanctions in the wake of the war against Ukraine. About 50% of the price per kw/h in Germany is set by an auction system. Electricity providers are bidding at any given point in time to provide energy for the grid. The lowest price per kw/h wins. BUT: because no on…

To think there were nuclear reactors already built and running perfectly fine in Germany. That were closed down presumably for ecological reasons. Burning coal and natural gas instead.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#55

Post by wslh » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 7:59 PM UTC

They forgot to mention Argentina, also subsidized electricity for the rich and the poor.

BTW, now one of the best locations for remote workers (economically and living standard). In some lists Buenos Aires is first [1].

[1] https://nomadlist.com/

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#56

Post by not_the_fda » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 8:00 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #46

France seems to be in a sweet spot: low electricity price and low CO2 emissions, thanks to nuclear power?

Yes, France gets 70% of its electricity form nuclear power.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#57

Post by discretion22 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 8:01 PM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #20

Scoundreller wrote: post #17

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees. In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double occupancy condo unit with the connection fee works out to US$0.22/kWh on average. One would hope that this just means I’m cross-subsidizing heavier users but in reality my metering provider is owned by a partnership in Bermuda. In reality, some ??? shareholder…

Toronto Hydro† also has time-of-use rates: * https://www.torontohydro.com/for-home/rates † Mostly due to historical reason of early generator stations being hydro-electric (water falls), electricity is called "hydro" in many parts of Canada.

In Ontario the published rates also omit the 'delivery' fees and additional charges added on top (per kWh) which are unavoidable. The real rate actually paid is typically double the supposed rate.

Factoring in the actual price people really pay, the rate is more like that of Barbados, Greece etc, right towards to most expensive end of the table.

Despite the essentially unlimited hydro generation possible thanks to the Great Lakes running through Ontario, there has been a huge push towards shifting generation to wind and solar as part of 'carbon emission reductions'. Prices have increased rapidly as a result and the Provincial Government now has to subsidize everyone's electricity bill in order to try and keep electricity affordable - the subsidies are funded by borrowing so build up huge debt burdens with little planning on how those will ever be repaid.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#58

Post by cjensen » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 8:02 PM UTC

$0.14/kWh in the US? My goodness. It's double that in the Bay Area. There's a reason I invested in solar for my home.

Also the map of low-carbon countries looks a lot like a map of where it rains a lot.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#59

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 8:02 PM UTC

mpreda wrote: post #54

tfourb wrote: post #51

If you are asking yourself why prices in Germany are so high: It's mostly the price surge of natural gas after Russia cut off deliveries in retaliation to sanctions in the wake of the war against Ukraine. About 50% of the price per kw/h in Germany is set by an auction system. Electricity providers are bidding at any given point in time to provide energy for the grid. The lowest price per kw/h wins. BUT: because no on…

To think there were nuclear reactors already built and running perfectly fine in Germany. That were closed down presumably for ecological reasons. Burning coal and natural gas instead.

Not just any coal, but lignite, the nastiest, dirtiest kind of coal. Definitely greener than nuclear. /s

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#60

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 8:05 PM UTC

cjensen wrote: post #58

$0.14/kWh in the US? My goodness. It's double that in the Bay Area. There's a reason I invested in solar for my home. Also the map of low-carbon countries looks a lot like a map of where it rains a lot.

$0.05 to $0.10 per kWh in many parts of OR/WA.