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If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

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Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#51

Post by Daishiman »

irahul wrote: post #15

The Ruby and Python communities are just now, many years after the hype has faded, learning that stuff like dependency injection and proper modularization are actually good things that help you maintain code over time. This remark is off the mark. Dependency injection, as in injection by parameters and injection by constructors are so obvious people do it sub-consciously. A fluff word isn't needed for it. As far as I…

Seriously, at least as far as Python goes it has always donde modules and namespaces better than C++ or Java or Scala.

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#52

Post by karterk »

cube13 wrote: post #44
davidw wrote: post #2

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I see node.js as being "disruptive": * It's "not as good" as languages/environments like Erlang. * But it's good enough, and significantly simpler, as an approach to tackle a certain class of problems. This, combined with widespread knowledge of Javascript, will probably make it fairly widely used.

I disagree about it being that "disruptive". The concepts that it uses aren't new. They've existed in POSIX environments for decades. At a very basic level, Node.js is a callback-based API that's based around some(probably select) notifier loop. That's not particularly new.

The disruption is not about whether the paradigm is old or new. The fact is - today if you are building a small app and need some form of real-time features, your best bet is Node.js. Right from etherpad lite to socket.io you have the tools you need to be up and running and to support a few thousand concurrent users out of the box.

Of course, scaling it past that will be a problem with Node being single threaded and so on - but I believe that these are problems that Node.js will eventually address.

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#54

Post by jessedhillon »

Here's my problem and why I don't care to use it:

It's a community built around an implementation of a language which they do not control. Who is Guido or Matz in node.js? Ryan Dahl I suppose; does he take requests or hold discussions concerning the future evolution of the language? Does he issue any rationale documents concerning his language design philosophy? Could he add multithreading to V8 and if so, why hasn't this happened?

It's a community built around someone else's tool, and Google develops it for entirely different reasons. Case in point, someone posted IcedCoffee, which adds an "await" keyword to CoffeeScript -- you have to implement a compiled language on top of Javascript to have the language features you need!

Finally, to preempt questions about my being concerned about other people's language choices -- other people are choosing, inexpertly in my opinion, the technologies with with I will contend in the future. Future employers may value and demand experience in node, and future employees may have to be disabused of bad habits accumulated during the learning of it.

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#55

Post by bri3d »

irahul wrote: post #15

The Ruby and Python communities are just now, many years after the hype has faded, learning that stuff like dependency injection and proper modularization are actually good things that help you maintain code over time. This remark is off the mark. Dependency injection, as in injection by parameters and injection by constructors are so obvious people do it sub-consciously. A fluff word isn't needed for it. As far as I…

Agreed entirely - I find that this is an old debate between people who "love Java" and those who don't.

I posted some commentary on the same topic last time Nick Kallen's infamous "I love everything you hate about Java" blog got posted : http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3287777 .

What it boils down to is that Java likes invoking the names of design patterns with all sorts of pomp and ceremony (look, ma, it's an AbstractFactoryFactory!) while many more modern languages make similar design patterns natural.

Whether or not to like the ritual is up to the programmer, but I entirely agree that claiming that Ruby and Python are "just starting" or "don't" support patterns like dependency injection is absolutely baseless.

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#56

Post by nephics »

andrewvc wrote: post #21

I'm really pretty anti-node, but this article isn't very good. The concerns here are mixed up and not very thorough. All these points need graphs, charts, something solid to anchor them to. This is the sort of article that polarizes, but doesn't add to the discussion. It starts off strong talking about a high bug count, but never gets into specifics there. As far as scaling across cores goes, it's disingenuous to sug…

Unfortunately, this way of stating unqualified arguments as basis for reasoning is quite prevalent on the Internet.

Keeping it to node.js bashing, this guy takes the discussion to a slightly lower level: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1e1zzna-dNw

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#57

Post by didip »

Everybody is angry if bugs keep punching them in the face. I get that. But this post needs more info to be informative:

* If I read correctly, OP is using Chrome/V8 directly. I don't see if the bug list is on V8 itself or his bindings?

* "Callback Spaghetti". To each his/her own. I happened to read callbacks easier than other solutions. And this is coming from Python programmer, not JS programmer.

* The last 2 points are also information-less rants. What happened to HN?

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#58

Post by to3m »

DevX101 wrote: post #48
bunderbunder wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. We're all aware of the Internet Hype Machine. We've all been duped by it before. Heck, my big project today consists of frantic backpedaling from an overly hasty decision, prompted by the IHM, to use SQLite in a project that had no business being based on SQLite. We should all be open to hearing criticism about choices to use X or Y technology. -But- if you start by saying, "You're so stupid," th…

Socratic method for the win. Keep asking questions until THEY come the conclusion that what they were thinking was a dumb idea.

Do you think?

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#59

Post by MatthewPhillips »

karterk wrote: post #43
rgarcia wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nit: Client side JS has no module system. Check out requirejs: http://requirejs.org/ I've used it to handle both server-side (node) and client-side module systems, and it's been great.

Yes, I am aware of requirejs. I was talking about native module support.

Native module support is a feature of Harmony and,it's pretty fantastic. I hope Node adopts this method of module loading as an alternative to require in the future.

edit: phone keyboard typos

Re: If you're using Node.js, you're doing life wrong

#60

Post by chc »

jessedhillon wrote: post #54

Here's my problem and why I don't care to use it: It's a community built around an implementation of a language which they do not control. Who is Guido or Matz in node.js? Ryan Dahl I suppose; does he take requests or hold discussions concerning the future evolution of the language? Does he issue any rationale documents concerning his language design philosophy? Could he add multithreading to V8 and if so, why hasn't…

This comment is just wildly off the mark. You're comparing a framework to a language. DHH can't add features to MRI Ruby any more than Ryan Dahl can add features to V8 JavaScript.
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