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Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

perspective.finos.org

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Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#51

Post by texodus »

egeozcan wrote: post #49
texodus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what specifically you are looking at - the data grid element e.g. is a well-formed, native HTML ` `, as recommended by the w3 [1] and renders fine AFAICT with the screen readers in Safari and Chrome (the browsers I have installed). A specific report on the GitHub for issues you find would be much appreciated! [1]( https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/table/examples/tabl... )

I was looking at the datagrid. I can't use the menus with the keyboard. I can't select columns. I can't see the currently focused element. My screen reader does not inform me of the menus, nor can I interact with them. Inputs have outline: none. Labels are not connected to the inputs. In this example: https://perspective.finos.org/block/?example=superstore I can't use the tree with the keyboard. From the patterns pag…

Like I said - GitHub is the preferred method of reporting issues:

* Some of these (keyboard nav, focus) we test for and sounds like a specific issue with your browser/OS setup, which we'd very much like to fix. GitHub Issues allow us to ask these followup context questions.

* Some of these are vague, I'm not aware of any label+input in the component, e.g., nor how column selection is related to accessibility. The venue for this discovery is GitHub Issues - just because they are obvious to you does not make them obvious to us such that RTFM is a suitable correction, humbly or otherwise.

The project has relatively wide financial industry usage (and some of the code was originally developed at JPMC), and we're very interested in fixing real issues!

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#53

Post by egeozcan »

texodus wrote: post #51
egeozcan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was looking at the datagrid. I can't use the menus with the keyboard. I can't select columns. I can't see the currently focused element. My screen reader does not inform me of the menus, nor can I interact with them. Inputs have outline: none. Labels are not connected to the inputs. In this example: https://perspective.finos.org/block/?example=superstore I can't use the tree with the keyboard. From the patterns pag…

Like I said - GitHub is the preferred method of reporting issues: * Some of these (keyboard nav, focus) we test for and sounds like a specific issue with your browser/OS setup, which we'd very much like to fix. GitHub Issues allow us to ask these followup context questions. * Some of these are vague, I'm not aware of any label+input in the component, e.g., nor how column selection is related to accessibility. The ven…

Well, I'm sorry, I can only help so much. I also try to open source many things as I can, and I'm active on Github in many projects but I have only so much time.

> Some of these (keyboard nav, focus) we test for and sounds like a specific issue with your browser/OS setup

It's probably not (tried on another computer and browser). Please open this page: https://perspective.finos.org/blocks/superstore/index.html Try to navigate with your keyboard. There are no outlines and the tree view is not possible to interact with.

> I'm not aware of any label+input in the component

The top and right toolbars here: https://perspective.finos.org/blocks/editable/index.html Are the not the part of the component? Perhaps I'm mistaken to think so. My apologies if they aren't.

> how column selection is related to accessibility

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A...

The column headers aren't possible to interact with a keyboard anyway, and the screen reader doesn't announce anything to indicate that the table can be sorted.

In my current job, we paid a lot of money for an army of auditors to hunt these down for us, and I don't expect that you do something like that for an open-source product, but if you have corporate use (I mean if people are paying for this directly or indirectly, and I hope they do!), maybe it makes sense to go for one?

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#54

Post by pnut »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #45
NortySpock wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People inside a company prefer to have financial and operational information to make informed operational decisions or projections. Sometimes that data is stored in a variety of places (excel files, a smattering of disconnected databases, sometimes enriching the data with more data pulled from an API...). Extracting that data to a common location (historically called a data warehouse) tends to be the work of a data p…

Sounds like essentially consolidating data in a database and visualizing it. Is there a difference between a database and a "data warehouse"?

Yes, they have fundamentally different architectures to serve their respective use cases.

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#55

Post by aidenn0 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #45
NortySpock wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People inside a company prefer to have financial and operational information to make informed operational decisions or projections. Sometimes that data is stored in a variety of places (excel files, a smattering of disconnected databases, sometimes enriching the data with more data pulled from an API...). Extracting that data to a common location (historically called a data warehouse) tends to be the work of a data p…

Sounds like essentially consolidating data in a database and visualizing it. Is there a difference between a database and a "data warehouse"?

A data warehouse is a specific use-case for a database.

> Sounds like essentially consolidating data in a database and visualizing it

Yes, and the database in which you consolidate the data is called a "data warehouse" In many cases the sources of data are ... not optimal for querying. (And I mean like "Spread across a dozen excel spreadsheets that people e-mail out new versions of when they make a change" by "not optimal")

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#57

Post by supermatt »

egeozcan wrote: post #47
supermatt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically your website doesn't meet the first criterion of the WAI design tips you linked (the nav links): https://www.w3.org/WAI/tips/designing/#provide-sufficient-co... No doubt I have poor a11y on my own projects - but if you are going to launch into critique of the landing page, at least do it from a position of authority :) TBH, I am not sure how a charting lib could effectively be accessible to any great exten…

If we are going to go this way: You previously commented that something doesn't work on Firefox, do all your project superior browser support? That doesn't make sense does it? What does my website which I updated 6 years ago (and created more than a decade ago) have anything to do with the validity of my comment? It just has a contrast issue (let me fix that BTW [edit: done]), a criteria that was set way later than I…

> If we are going to go this way: You previously commented that something doesn't work on Firefox, do all your project superior browser support?

It was in a thread specifically discussing browser support for the guys project where he stated he only has the ability to test on chrome/firefox on fedora: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448674

> a criteria that was set way later than I built that site

That criterion has been there since 1999.

> Also, see: https://www.highcharts.com/blog/tutorials/best-chart-accessi...

It is highcharts that I use extensively, and I completely disagree that a11y is a solved problem there. Ironically on the referenced page they make the same mistake as you regarding color shades.

I can do this all day. Stop being so hostile.

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#58

Post by egeozcan »

supermatt wrote: post #57
egeozcan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are going to go this way: You previously commented that something doesn't work on Firefox, do all your project superior browser support? That doesn't make sense does it? What does my website which I updated 6 years ago (and created more than a decade ago) have anything to do with the validity of my comment? It just has a contrast issue (let me fix that BTW [edit: done]), a criteria that was set way later than I…

> If we are going to go this way: You previously commented that something doesn't work on Firefox, do all your project superior browser support? It was in a thread specifically discussing browser support for the guys project where he stated he only has the ability to test on chrome/firefox on fedora: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448674 > a criteria that was set way later than I built that site That criterio…

> That criterion has been there since 1999.

Apparently 2001 (and I stand corrected). But well, I'm learning and improving am I not? I was a worse web developer a decade ago than I am now, and I am proud of that.

> Stop being so hostile.

You are the one who analyzed my personal website and reported a single color contrast issue to dismiss my complaint, why am I hostile? Regardless of that discussion, isn't my point coming across: Do we need to be authority on issues we report?

I tried to help, linked some resources, why is that wrong? I feel rather you being hostile.

> Ironically on the referenced page they make the same mistake as you regarding color shades.

Okay now you get to criticize open source libraries?

Anyway, few years ago I created an SVG based charting library for internal use, and we did (and still have) users with sight impairments, and yes it is hard to make it right. NVDA is a pain to bring under control, at least :) And a colleague of mine said something I really like: You cannot make software completely accessible, even for a perfectly capable person with above-human IQ, no, but you can make it always more accessible. It's great that they are trying!

> I can do this all day

What you are doing is something I sincerely don't understand. Teaching me a lesson? Proving I was over the line? Reading my first comment, I did see it's a bit whiny, and in another branch I tried to apologize. Whatever it is, maybe we are misunderstanding each other and perhaps everything is coming across more and more hostile. I do apologize from you if it came across to you like that too.

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#59

Post by CyberDildonics »

aidenn0 wrote: post #55
CyberDildonics wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like essentially consolidating data in a database and visualizing it. Is there a difference between a database and a "data warehouse"?

A data warehouse is a specific use-case for a database. > Sounds like essentially consolidating data in a database and visualizing it Yes, and the database in which you consolidate the data is called a "data warehouse" In many cases the sources of data are ... not optimal for querying. (And I mean like "Spread across a dozen excel spreadsheets that people e-mail out new versions of when they make a change" by "not op…

Consolidating data makes sense and taking it from sources you can't query makes sense, but once you put it into a source you can query, that sounds like a database. I'm not sure why there is a different term here.

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#60

Post by CyberDildonics »

pnut wrote: post #54
CyberDildonics wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like essentially consolidating data in a database and visualizing it. Is there a difference between a database and a "data warehouse"?

Yes, they have fundamentally different architectures to serve their respective use cases.

What is the different architecture and what is the different use case? Databases are already general tools. You put data in and query it. At what point does it become a "data warehouse" ?
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