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Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

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Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#51

Post by jabl »

GalenErso wrote: post #11
motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

"If his former exes asked for a restraining order against him, what incentive or assurance does he have for allowing them to break up with him?" The problem is Russia. Russia could be a normal country like its neighbors and make money from trading goods while wooing foreign investors, but Putin took the history books he read too seriously and thinks he can pull another round of territorial conquests. I don't see how…

Many were optimistic after the fall of the USSR ("end of history" and all that) that Russia would develop into a liberal democracy that would concentrate on improving the lives of its citizens, and engage in mutually beneficial peaceful trade with other countries, while respecting their sovereignty. But, the Russian leadership chose differently, aggression and imperialism, and are now reaping what they sowed. Whining over Finland choosing to take steps to protect it from Russian aggression is the whine of sad, small, and entitled men.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#52

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

sprash wrote: post #41
throwaway894345 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many NATO countries has Russia attacked in the history of NATO? How many non-NATO countries? Moreover, Finland’s military and diplomatic bureaucracy was already well-integrated into NATO, so there isn’t a _lot_ of additional organization (at least as far as these things go).

These questions are irrelevant. The tactical significance of Finland to Russia is small compared to the resources required to invade it as is. Due to bad cost/benefit ratio it is therefore unlikely for Russia to attack Finland. But now that Finland is part of NATO it has to bear the cost when some other country gets attacked. It's a bad deal.

Even worse deal for Russia, which now has to think even harder about attacking NATO countries with its magnificent invincible army.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#53

Post by ElectricalUnion »

29athrowaway wrote: post #31

[flagged]

> the BRICS surpassed the G7 in terms of GDP and more countries are seeking to join.

Is "the BRICS" something besides a joint meeting that happens every now and then? What's the point in joining a joint meeting that happens every now and then?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#55

Post by cartermatic »

sprash wrote: post #24
madspindel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia would never attack Ukraine if it was part of Nato.

[flagged]

They've been trying for ~13months already and haven't done so, why do you think they could do it now? Especially after losing 150,000+ soldiers (dead and/or wounded), and thousands of tanks and other armored vehicles? They've lost tens of thousands of troops and dozens/hundreds of vehicles just trying to take one town since August (Bakhmut).

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#56

Post by kgwxd »

kreeben wrote: post #28
The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

>> just Hah, yeah, that's not a big deal at all, neutralizing Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors, through threats of aggression. Like, who's scared of Russia these days? They're just empty threats. I'd like totally bet my life on it, just empty threats. EDIT: /s

> Who's scared of Russia and their threats, these days?

Ukraine?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#57

Post by mantas »

torbica wrote: post #50
The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#58

Post by rainworld »

watwut wrote: post #7
rainworld wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Yes. Because Finland joining NATO is direct response to Russia attacking Ukraine. The snub makes sense for two reasons: - Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". - It prevents Russia from attacking Finland. They are less likely to attack NATO members and more likely to attack countries outside of the aliance.

Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO".

NATO in Ukraine wasn’t a pretext it was (part of) the text. People in the West really seem to think Russia invaded to satisfy some vague desire for evil and villainy. People in the West really seem to think NATO and the EU being in a (proxy) war now with Russia over Ukraine disproves Russian concerns.

It prevents Russia from attacking Finland

Which was never going to happen. Zero reason. Impossible to sell to Russia’s allies on which it so depends, if we believe Western media. (Except now, of course, Finland has gained some nuclear targets on its map, in the event of. That’s the real 5D chess.) So there must be some other punitive quality to a country on the border of Russia becoming part of NATO.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#60

Post by go13 »

Great step for the West and civilized nations!

Countries with similar civilized values should not be naïve and be ready to stand up to barbarians including being aggressive when needed, and yes, EXPAND!

And certainly the West should not be ashamed for standing for its values and what is right, otherwise there is a wide range of ambitious nations who think that their way is unique and the only way to deal with others is power, while despising fundamental human values.

While power may beat everything in some cases, but for some reason citizens of those barbarian countries want to move to the West rather than enjoy their countries' glory in a concentration camp.

I'm saying this as Ukrainian.

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