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Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

kentnguyen.com

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Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#51

Post by justinvoss »

Jabbles wrote: post #48

I have no experience designing iOS apps. Could someone explain briefly why they are so inflexible? Tightly integrated code: With websites, you can simply add one more page, then create a link to that page when you needed. However, you can’t do that with iOS app, everything has to be set in the beginning, any changes might result in significant other changes that you might not be able to understand why. The way iOS co…

The author may be overstating how rigid they are. iOS apps can be much less dynamic than web apps, mostly because you're working at a "lower" level in the GUI stack. Instead of having a layout engine that recalculates the positions of your UI elements for you (eg, HTML and the box model), you mostly have to manage the position and sizes of everything yourself.

You could create your own layout engine, but most developers choose not to, especially since the consistency of iOS hardware means they can predict screen sizes easily. Your other option is to make your app a thin wrapper around a Webkit view, but that tends to produce poor results (see the Netflix iOS app for an example).

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#52

Post by tatsuke95 »

rockarage wrote: post #2

ios is a lot of work, programming in general is a lot of work. It is 2012 not 1992, business people in all fields should know programming is not cheap. Business people who do not do the research, don't bother with them. Avoid them at all cost. I've learn the best clients are the ones who value your work and are willing to pay for it. Their is a shortage of great programmers.

Don't hate me, I'm going by experience:

I think this is backwards. Programming is cheaper than ever. As outsourcing tools because better (vWorker is what I have experience with) this is only going to get better. Programmers have to realize that there are hungry, capable people around the world who can do much of what you can for far cheaper. I'm not taking anything away from anyone, but that's the reality of globalization. I've been able to get projects (mostly simple web development) done at less than half the price through outsourcing.

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#53

Post by blueprint »

rickmb wrote: post #16

This is a general problem with custom software, not just iOS apps. Most businesses outside major corporations didn't start commissioning custom software until the rise of the commercial use of the internet in the late '90s, when all kinds of small and medium sized businesses wanted their own website. Websites were relatively simple back then, and the people willing and able to make them cheap. Hell, even though I was…

> But most businesses don't commission software ever few months, or even every few years. So every time they want a new app, or a refresh of their website, they are suddenly faced with a shockingly high price tag compared to the last time they wanted something similar (or at least similar from their perspective).

I've been a Cocoa/iOS and web developer for the better part of the last decade, and what you mentioned is one of the biggest reasons I started my company, Blueprint (http://www.blueprint.io). It's an online tool for building native iPhone Apps - no programming necessary - and it is able to neatly sidestep most of the process of redevelopment and republishing to the App Store that people have to go through when they want to release an App.

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#54

Post by funkyboy »

zavulon wrote: post #43

This is a message on NY Tech meetup mailing list, from about a half hour ago. All I could do is shake my head. _____________ I am seeking a telephony app. builder that can deliver a PhoneGap lie ( non-native) inexpensive app. for a telephony project. pay is: $350 + 1% equity stake in a newly formed Delaware Corp. and 2.5% on all residuals. possible board seat (future paid projects) if you can deliver an additional in…

This is the worst I have seen. In the past I have been proposed around 1000$ but this wins, hands down! The world is getting crowded of last minute entrepreneurs...

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#55

Post by funkyboy »

wtvanhest wrote: post #21

As a "business person" I need to know three things to hire someone: 1) how much did it cost other people to build similar apps (comparative analysis) 2) that you are able to build the product successfully (reducing technical risk) 3) that the price is low enough that the estimated Rev will produce a return (ROI) - If you can present those points clearly you will be in a much better position to make more money with le…

An estimate for Twitterific is 200K (provided by the authors of the app). Still willing to venture in an iOS app?

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#56

Post by funkyboy »

rockarage wrote: post #2

ios is a lot of work, programming in general is a lot of work. It is 2012 not 1992, business people in all fields should know programming is not cheap. Business people who do not do the research, don't bother with them. Avoid them at all cost. I've learn the best clients are the ones who value your work and are willing to pay for it. Their is a shortage of great programmers.

There is also shortage of so called "entrepreneurs" which are able to fairly judge the value of a service.

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#57

Post by funkyboy »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #52
rockarage wrote: post #2

ios is a lot of work, programming in general is a lot of work. It is 2012 not 1992, business people in all fields should know programming is not cheap. Business people who do not do the research, don't bother with them. Avoid them at all cost. I've learn the best clients are the ones who value your work and are willing to pay for it. Their is a shortage of great programmers.

Don't hate me, I'm going by experience: I think this is backwards. Programming is cheaper than ever. As outsourcing tools because better (vWorker is what I have experience with) this is only going to get better. Programmers have to realize that there are hungry, capable people around the world who can do much of what you can for far cheaper. I'm not taking anything away from anyone, but that's the reality of globaliz…

Yep, but I guess if you have an "hardcore" project you won't find cheap devs (who deliver clean and reusable code on time) easily.

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#58

Post by jsavimbi »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #29
jsavimbi wrote: post #14

Please raise your hand if you're approached by on a weekly/monthly basis by some bright-eyed, overly optimistic, non-technical person who wants you to build them an "app", of any kind, for the quoted price of somewhere between $10K - $20K. That's the price of a demo.

Sorry, but I think you're being a little overly dramatic. I'm relatively new to iOS development (just over a year of doing it full-time) and I've built quite a few apps for clients for <$10k and for somewhere between $10k and $20k. There is a LONG list of apps that can be delivered in 100-150 hours. At $95-125 / hr, that puts you solidly in the $10k - $20k range.

> There is a LONG list of apps that can be delivered in 100-150 hours.

Agreed, if they're just consuming some data from a source and presenting it to the user through a very simple set of page views. But those types of apps have a very short shelf-life coupled with ever increasing competition as the different data sources become standardized and the app itself is nothing but a me-first attempt in the market. In other words, I won't need to download an app for each and every data set, just one good one that can feed them all.

But then what happens when I want that data to be multi-directional or actually useful to me, the consumer, as something I can store, manipulate and further share? You're no longer talking that simple app that someone slapped together for a nice $10K. And what happens when that data feed changes protocols or simply stops working? People delete your app and find something better.

If a low-level business type is looking to get their foot in the door with a quick app, then by all means, make hay while the sun is shining. Just keep in mind that the majority of your work will have been obsoleted in a relatively short timeframe and you may not have much to show for it a couple of years down the road.

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#59

Post by tomjen3 »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #52
rockarage wrote: post #2

ios is a lot of work, programming in general is a lot of work. It is 2012 not 1992, business people in all fields should know programming is not cheap. Business people who do not do the research, don't bother with them. Avoid them at all cost. I've learn the best clients are the ones who value your work and are willing to pay for it. Their is a shortage of great programmers.

Don't hate me, I'm going by experience: I think this is backwards. Programming is cheaper than ever. As outsourcing tools because better (vWorker is what I have experience with) this is only going to get better. Programmers have to realize that there are hungry, capable people around the world who can do much of what you can for far cheaper. I'm not taking anything away from anyone, but that's the reality of globaliz…

Good for you. Most outsourcing projects don't go nearly that well.

Which is a shame, but understandable. Why should the good Indian programmers work on the kind of projects people are willing to sell?

Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work

#60

Post by Tossrock »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #34
cryptoz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is 2012 not 1992 On the other hand, think of what you could accomplish with a weekend of work in 1992 and compare that to 2012. Our abilities as developers/designers/etc are vastly improved due to improved infrastructure, tools, communications, resources, etc. You could build a distributed photo hosting and viewing application back in 1992. But you'd probably be writing it in C++ and it might take you a long tim…

The problem is that once we make 80% of the process vastly more efficient, all it does is throw a spotlight on the remaining 20%. (This is the unheralded dark side of the Pareto principle. ;) Not everything about building an app gets more efficient with time. You can now throw together a photo-hosting and viewing application in a couple of days. But that doesn't necessarily yield a site that runs itself. Teaching the…

> The problem is that once we make 80% of the process vastly more efficient, all it does is throw a spotlight on the remaining 20%. (This is the unheralded dark side of the Pareto principle.

I think this might be better referred to as the well-known outcome of Amdahl's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahls_law

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