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You can't tell people anything (2004)

habitatchronicles.com

51–60 of 193 posts

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#51
> I’m totally convinced that a new idea or a new plan or a new technique is never really understood when you just explain it. > People will often think they understand, and they’ll say they understand, but then their actions show that it just ain’t so.

Isn't this the very reason that homework assignments exist? When I was in college, it took me two years to realize that I could have easily gotten As and Bs (instead of Bs and Cs) in my various math classes, physics, chemistry, etc. had I simply bothered to do my homework properly--or, to put it differently, had I only properly applied the knowledge which I passively acquired by reading the associated textbook sections. Notably, I was always convinced that I "understood" everything I had read, only to find out otherwise when I tried to solve any of the problems. It was only after I actively applied the knowledge I had picked up, that my understanding transitioned from superficial (as in, understanding the underlying logic itself) to concrete (being able to apply the logic toward other problems).

If you apply this to abstract and esoteric technical concepts, it is easy to see why someone might say they understand--and even believe that they do--while in reality only having a superficial understanding at best. The problem then becomes getting the other person to spend the effort to properly internalize the concepts being conveyed, before they have built up the requisite interest in the idea to be sufficiently motivated to carry out said effort.

It's probably also true, however, that this may only apply to sufficiently esoteric and complex ideas in the first place.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#52

> When people ask me about my life’s ambitions, I often joke that my goal is to become independently wealthy so that I can afford to get some work done. Mainly that’s about being able to do things without having to explain them first, so that the finished product can be the explanation. I think this will be a major labor saving improvement. Agreed. The worst part is when they nod and pretend they got it and then that…

When I first started pair programming, I found the most important part was even if I had a solution that would work, if I couldn't explain it to my partner, it was not a very good solution. Being able to convey an idea often forces it to be closer to the simplest and most comprehensible version of that idea.

> ...if I couldn't explain it to my partner, it was not a very good solution.

I've found that in situations like that, I just write out a prototype and that clears up the confusion.

Usually, what I'm trying to explain is good, but there's some context that I can't get out of my head and into theirs that's critical to understanding the thing I'm trying to explain.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#54

This article really frustrated me the last time it was posted, but now I think I have a clear enough idea why to put it into words. You absolutely can tell people things! But to tell someone something, you need to do three things: - Establish enough shared context that they can understand you - Speak about something they actually care about (or convince them to care) - Use a format that works for what you're trying t…

"...you have to put in the work to be understood and to show people it's worth their time to pay attention. Communicating well is part of the job."

That's fine and I don't disagree but the problem is that there are very few truly good communicators out there (there is just not enough to go around).

Communication is difficult and really effective communication is very difficult. I'll use myself as an example, When I post to HN I usually know what I want to say and I generally make myself clear—in fact I go considerable lengths ensure I'm not misinterpreted or misconstrued.

To ensure this does not happen I'll often restate what I've said in a different way and or provide examples. This makes my comments long, prolix and boring so few bother to read them.

I don't have a Shakespeare-like talent to be short, pithy and simultaneously convey what I'm saying both succinctly and accurately, and I believe that not many people do.

OK, so when people have some talent, skill or knowledge that needs to be conveyed to the world and they can't get their point across effectively then what are they to do?

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#55

The article axiom is an extension of the famous John Watson[1] quote : "Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Which naturally extends to "You don't know", and I believe, the equivalent of this 2004 article. Now, as the article suggests, this is best shown - instead of explained. A Neuroscientist was interviewed in a podcast [2] and illustrated this point with a story. He tells of a time when he dated…

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Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#56
post #51

> I’m totally convinced that a new idea or a new plan or a new technique is never really understood when you just explain it. > People will often think they understand, and they’ll say they understand, but then their actions show that it just ain’t so. Isn't this the very reason that homework assignments exist? When I was in college, it took me two years to realize that I could have easily gotten As and Bs (instead o…

[deleted]

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#57
post #51

> I’m totally convinced that a new idea or a new plan or a new technique is never really understood when you just explain it. > People will often think they understand, and they’ll say they understand, but then their actions show that it just ain’t so. Isn't this the very reason that homework assignments exist? When I was in college, it took me two years to realize that I could have easily gotten As and Bs (instead o…

[deleted]

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#58

This article really frustrated me the last time it was posted, but now I think I have a clear enough idea why to put it into words. You absolutely can tell people things! But to tell someone something, you need to do three things: - Establish enough shared context that they can understand you - Speak about something they actually care about (or convince them to care) - Use a format that works for what you're trying t…

It's also ... if not absolutely necessary, then tremendously helpful to the process ... to observe the subjects' expressed understanding and see if that matches the lesson or message you're trying to convey.

This distinction to me is what distinguishes various informational approaches, in which delivery is one-way, from instructional approaches, in which the teacher closely observes and monitors students to see what understanding they're forming, and to bring them back on course if they're straying from it.

This is challenging at scale, or at distance, or over time (e.g., in writing a book that's used passively in instruction). It's a chief reason I suspect that various methods of scaling instruction perform poorly. It's why even generative-AI approaches to machine-guided instruction are likely to perform poorly --- such tools can explain material or respond to prompts, but it seems don't of themselves address the monitoring-and-guidance approach.

That said, in technical contexts whether in school-based teaching, professional training, or marketing support / vendor-based instruction, efficacy can be hugely improved by adding this step.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#59
post #51

> I’m totally convinced that a new idea or a new plan or a new technique is never really understood when you just explain it. > People will often think they understand, and they’ll say they understand, but then their actions show that it just ain’t so. Isn't this the very reason that homework assignments exist? When I was in college, it took me two years to realize that I could have easily gotten As and Bs (instead o…

The irony here is that bypassing active learning early, means one only discovers how valuable it is much later in life.

As per article above in which the hubris is its own comeuppance.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#60
post #51

> I’m totally convinced that a new idea or a new plan or a new technique is never really understood when you just explain it. > People will often think they understand, and they’ll say they understand, but then their actions show that it just ain’t so. Isn't this the very reason that homework assignments exist? When I was in college, it took me two years to realize that I could have easily gotten As and Bs (instead o…

I've seen this time and time again when attempting to implement a centralized design system across a group of existing apps.
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