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A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

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Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#51

Post by cubefox »

Related: Weather apps could in general be better, not just in terms of visualization. One thing which always annoys me is how they handle rain predictions. They give "probabilities" for rain. But what do those mean? The probability that it rains for at least one minute in the given time frame? And with at least x mm/inches of rain coming down? And isn't a low probability of short and weak rain totally different from a equally low probability of strong or long rain?

But there is a perfectly elegant alternative: Just use the expected amount of rainfall. The epected value combines both amount and probability of rainfall in one single number, without being highly arbitrary like other approaches, such as the usual reporting of plain "probabilities" with unclear interpretation.

(Of course one could add to the expected rainfall amount also the variance, to distinguish more certain predictions from more uncertain ones, though this information might often not even be that important.)

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#52

Post by MisterBastahrd »

davweb wrote: post #16

Carrot Weather added the "inline" view which replicates Dark Sky pretty well. [1] It's been an easy transition for me, although Carrot is more expensive. [1]: http://meetcarrot.com/weather/goodbyedarksky.html

Well, I tried to install this on Android and was met with "unable to connect to server."

I wonder if Carrot is using the Dark Sky API.

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#53

Post by iudqnolq »

cubefox wrote: post #51

Related: Weather apps could in general be better, not just in terms of visualization. One thing which always annoys me is how they handle rain predictions. They give "probabilities" for rain. But what do those mean? The probability that it rains for at least one minute in the given time frame? And with at least x mm/inches of rain coming down? And isn't a low probability of short and weak rain totally different from…

Relatedly, I'm fasinated by how much human judgement goes into those numbers. A meteorologist with local expertise looks at a few different models, decides which are more likely to be accurate, and then fills out a grid.

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#54

Post by apendleton »

jameshart wrote: post #40

Dark Sky was okay. As detailed here, it does a great job of centering on the actual user needs of weather app users. Unfortunately, it also demonstrated that which users you focus on matters a lot. Dark Sky is great at answering the weather questions of people who live in places where rain showers are short lasting; where temperatures range from ‘cool’ to ‘hot’; and where storms are infrequent, special events. Basica…

I dunno, I live in Washington, DC, which has many of those properties (snow, freezing temperatures, heavy thunderstorms in the summer), and knowing which ten-minute window in the next hour was the least likely to get me soaked if I wanted to pop out for coffee was still incredibly useful, and I have yet to find a satisfactory replacement. Certainly there were some days when the weather was shit regardless and there wasn't a good opening, but no app is going to remedy that.

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#55

Post by InitialLastName »

withinboredom wrote: post #19
cryptoz wrote: post #12

Another Dark Sky thread, another opportunity to ask the community if anyone knows about Apple doing research with the barometers in their phones. Dark Sky claimed they 'did' but they never expanded on what that meant for them. Did they actually use the barometer data collected from the app? Or did it just get sent to /dev/null as I suspect? And if Apple bought that code, did they use it themselves? Is Apple doing any…

I suspect barometer data from phones would be junk unless you can correlate it with other data. The phone’s barometer is sensitive enough to detect the pressure difference (altitude change) of a few cm. That makes it extremely noisy for detecting slow moving metrics like the weather.

Not really?

A 10cm change in elevation at sea level results in a 0.0001% change in atmospheric pressure [0]. On the other hand, weather-relevant pressure changes operate on scales of ~0.1% [1]. By my math, a small weather-relevant pressure change would be equivalent of someone changing their elevation by 100 meters.

Additionally, on a modern phone the barometric data can be adjusted against the accelerometer and GPS to mitigate changes in elevation (especially relative to, as you say, a slow-moving measurement).

[0] https://www.mide.com/air-pressure-at-altitude-calculator [1] https://barometricpressure.app/content/understanding-high-lo...

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#57

Post by arprocter »

uneekname wrote: post #2

Oh man I miss Dark Sky. I have yet to find a weather app as good. briefsky[0] was recently posted on here and I think I'll try using it for a while. Also of note is Pirate Weather[1], a weather API in the same style as Dark Sky. [0] https://briefsky.app/ [1] https://pirateweather.net

Thanks - briefsky looks the part, although it's disappointing there's no map

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#58

Post by [deleted] »

dmje wrote: post #21

My wife often asks me "but why would you care about the weather?" and I have to say that over the years I've either been ground down or simply come to understand her way of thinking. Yes it's sort of exciting to see graphs and charts and maps and stuff, but really - do I make any decisions based on what my weather app is telling me? No. Do I need an alert to tell me it's going to rain soon? No. So, yeh, Dark Sky was…

[deleted]

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#59

Post by switchbak »

Steltek wrote: post #38

I'm a big fan of Weather Underground's 10 day forecast graph. Like Dark Sky, you can see the temperature ebb and flow, plus wind speeds, cloud cover, rain percentages (and amounts). One chart tells me every aspect of the weather that I need. Instead of an app, I just have a bookmark on my home screen.

Weather underground's 10 day forecast, especially the expected precipitation graph is FANTASTIC! I've found it to be very reliable for predicting real rainfall amounts for planning outdoor activities.

Too bad they don't show it on mobile though!

Does anyone have a recommendation for something similar? The usability of the WU app is pretty awful.

Re: A eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece

#60

Post by brewdad »

nonethewiser wrote: post #41
jwestbury wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I just piggyback on this to shit on the iOS Weather app for a moment? Whoever designed it doesn't understand the concept of daily max/min temperatures, and the daily low presented in the app is the lowest during that calendar day, rather than the forecast overnight low following the day. It drives me absolutely mad, because I can never reliably determine how cold it will get overnight without going into the hourl…

I’m confused why the daily minimum would include times outside the day. That doesn’t seem like a daily minimum by definition. The way Apple does it is exactly how I assumed it would work. Is the alternative you described standard?

It becomes useless when it was 32 degrees at midnight. But now, as I sit here on a Thursday morning, it shows the low for today as 28 degrees and tomorrow as 40 degrees. What will I need to wear Friday morning when I go out? Will it be closer to 40 or continue dropping and be closer to freezing? Is it safe to put my sensitive plants back outside? Perhaps it shows 28 again but is that for early Friday morning or late Friday night?

In almost all cases the coldest part of the day is right around dawn. That also happens to be the time of day when most of us are first leaving the house. That's a pretty important piece of information to have and it isn't there at a glance.

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