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Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

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Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#51

Was Google really a beloved employer? I feel like that was vapor marketing hype most real people saw through as bs, you'd pretty much see constant stories of overwork and toxic teams run by incompetent "project managers" just like every other overvalued Silicon Valley FAANG shop

At Google, developers were the product, not overhead. As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen, at least not in career available to people who weren't fifth-generation Ivy grads. And the pay, total comp is still trumpeted here at HN as among the highest around. Sure, a lot of people saw those perks as being aimed a particular demographic: young people without atta…

> As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen

This is simultaneously true and the CEO wrote a book about how he did an across the board 10 percent raise[1] because Google was underpaying relative to the competition, _for some reason_.

[1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703523604575605...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#52
post #9

Was Google really a beloved employer? I feel like that was vapor marketing hype most real people saw through as bs, you'd pretty much see constant stories of overwork and toxic teams run by incompetent "project managers" just like every other overvalued Silicon Valley FAANG shop

Overwork? Toxic teams? Project managers running teams? I've been at Google for a very long time, in quite a few orgs, and none of those things ring any bells. (Some probably exist in some pockets, though the last one sounds particularly implausible. It's just not how Google job ladders and the management structure work.) Now, I have to admit to having not read the article, but the headline does resonate. I've spoken…

I’ve been at Meta for a few years and would say similar - I’m pretty sure that at any company with tens or hundreds of thousands of employees, you are going to get some horror stories - but in general it used to be an amazing place to work (ranked #1 on glassdoor for several years for good reason), but now… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#53
This whole saga has been funny to someone in Sweden... Here it is 1-3 month lay off time, eg you need to find out in advance and your employer needs to find out in advance if you leave. For full time hires. There is 6month probation.

Expecting a company to do good when it does not have to is madness.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#54

The only thing that matters in a layoff is "severance package" Everything else is useless. If your co-workers liked you and wanted to say goodbye, they will call and throw a party. If I'm fired, there is no reason for me to log on to my workstation. All relevant documents are given to you anyway. Your personal items will be shipped to you.

I think many people would disagree with this assessment. It's akin to saying that the only thing that matters in a job is "compensation", and everything else is useless. While some people hold this view, many others like to be treated nicely in other ways: good working facilities, nice colleagues, fun perks, etc.

Same thing about getting laid off: it's never nice to lose your job, but even if the severance is good it's not nice to have your employer suddenly behave like an asshole, and that they think that your work is so worthless that it isn't necessary for you to wrap anything up.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#55

Was Google really a beloved employer? I feel like that was vapor marketing hype most real people saw through as bs, you'd pretty much see constant stories of overwork and toxic teams run by incompetent "project managers" just like every other overvalued Silicon Valley FAANG shop

(Disclaimer: I was a software engineering intern at Google during the summers of 2013 and 2014.)

In the 2000s and the first half of the 2010s, Google felt like the dream place to work. Yes, a lot has been said about the perks and the generous pay, but another thing that made Google appealing was its cutting edge projects. I was a huge fan of Google Inbox (sadly long discontinued). As a graduate student researching storage systems and who enjoyed reading the MapReduce, BigTable, and Spanner papers, being able to work on Spanner as an intern was a dream come true. I also loved all of the internal support I received as a developer, from the amazing internal infrastructure to the various internal tutorials. I never felt siloed off from the rest of the company, compared to other employers I've had. It was an amazing place to work and I'd rank it as my second-best work experience (my best being eight months I spent at Fujitsu Laboratories in Kawasaki, Japan where I worked in a storage lab on an SSD cache....that was a downright magical experience), though granted as an intern I was shielded from the performance review process and on-calls, so I can't comment about these things.

I would love to work for a team similar to the teams I worked on during my internships at Google, as well as the general feeling of 2013-14 Google. However, I'm under the impression that Google's culture started changing a lot during the Alphabet reorganization and the rise of Sundar Pichai as CEO. I don't know if there's a place in the Valley these days that captures the feel of pre-Alphabet Google; it seems to me that the Valley itself has changed a lot (and for the worse) since roughly 2015, but that's another discussion for another time.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#57
post #9

Was Google really a beloved employer? I feel like that was vapor marketing hype most real people saw through as bs, you'd pretty much see constant stories of overwork and toxic teams run by incompetent "project managers" just like every other overvalued Silicon Valley FAANG shop

Overwork? Toxic teams? Project managers running teams? I've been at Google for a very long time, in quite a few orgs, and none of those things ring any bells. (Some probably exist in some pockets, though the last one sounds particularly implausible. It's just not how Google job ladders and the management structure work.) Now, I have to admit to having not read the article, but the headline does resonate. I've spoken…

> Overwork?

I don't know anyone working at Google, nor anyone who worked at Google in the past (except a single intern). Hell, I don't even live anywhere near a Google campus!

But I always assumed that Google wants you to spend your whole day there, from morning until evening. Because big tech is usually implicitly aiming at that.

- Serve three major meals a day, + you can bring your dog to your office, which eliminates any reason to go home (especially for those who don't have a house or spouse to take care of).

- Shuttle bus, where many employees have like, idk, 40min of free time? Why not just start working on the laptop already?

- Food servings are stretched out. Breakfast is till 10AM; dinner is served at 6:30PM, so if you started at 8:30AM, you need to stay another 1.5h to make use of dinner. Why not work in the meantime?

And some classical fear stuff which makes you want to work hard and long hours:

- Aggressive deadlines

- Get the promotion in 2 years or get fired

I dunno, I probably wouldn't mind working under these conditions, but I think there are reasons why the average tenure of a Googler is 1.5 years.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#58
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was definitely a great place to work in it's heyday 10+ years ago, as I believe most of the FAANG companies were. It was so nice back in the day having companies you knew would be great if you could just get into them. Are there any companies like that these days?

There are _definitely_ great companies out there, depending on what makes a place great FOR YOU. Working on great products with smart people? Yeah, there are places out there like that, and not always in the 'obvious' places. Great compensation? Yeah, there are places/industries that still offer that. Getting everything combined with one employer? That's more of a unicorn problem and you might have to compromise on s…

Can you name some? It always seems like some sort of open secret until its too late. There was some discussion about Oxide Computers being one of these companies.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#59
post #15

A product of decades long quantitive easing with cheap money and near zero interest rate economic policy with a techno pseudo-utopian world view belief that Google is a forever day care and a "beloved employer". As soon as competition is around the corner with a scarce and expensive dollar, it is crunch time and layoffs need to happen to remove the deadwood. (Seniors, managers, HR, etc affected.) Don't worry though,…

> techno pseudo-utopian world view belief that Google is a forever day care and a "beloved employer".

The catch is that Google could have made that utopia possible, had all the funds and resources needed to do it, and actually did have that philosophy at the start and publicly so - until the bean counters took over and started minmaxing everything for the sake of absentee shareholders. The 'MBAification' eventually destroyed its mission. Various detailed comments from some long-time Googlers in different threads under TFA tell how that MBAification happened in minute detail.

Its just another case of capitalism destroying things while maximizing profits through 'MBAification'.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#60

the employees were fools for falling in love with their employer, not sure how else to say it they should be grateful they were paid so well for so long to do so little...chances are they will never see comp like that for work like that again ...and hopefully no one is naive enough to think Google is "done"...after next earnings I expect an even bigger round the same thing is happening all over tech - go down to a re…

>the same thing is happening all over tech - go down to a reduced staff of essential contributors and re-hire later for much lower comp If supply and demand stay the same, then why do you think the price will change?

Isn’t >100K cumulative layoffs in the industry and widespread hiring freezes exactly a reduction in demand?

Do you think the demand for SWEs will be the same in April of 2023 as it was in April of 2021?

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