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IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

theguardian.com

51–60 of 456 posts

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#51
post #18
post #8

For anyone interested in what 1.5C represents, I can't recommend enough the Climate Fresk [1] exercise. It's not just the droughts and floods, the heatwaves, the changes in birds, insects, crop yields, … Include permafrost melting and releasing greenhouse gasses, civil unrest in populated areas that won't be livable anymore, unstable food production, and quite a few other causes and consequences. It's a feedback loop…

Overstating impact is detrimental to the cause. > decimated 1.5C will be bad, but it won’t directly kill 800+ million people in a short timeframe. People simply don’t respond to harm spread across 100 years the way they react to harm concentrated into a few large events.

So is understating the impact.

This take is seriously dangerous.

"1.5C is not so bad, chill people"

When the fact is - we don't know the impact - if we go beyond 1.5.

What we do know (because it's already very much measurable) is that much of the worlds glaciers will melt, causing drought.

What we do know is that eventually the sea levels will rise and drown many extremely valuable coastal areas.

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#52
post #10
post #4

[flagged]

"Economic growth" is probably a bad indicator to follow. I would rather follow "number of excess death directly or indirectly linked to climate change." I don't know if that can be calculated somewhere.

> "Economic growth" is probably a bad indicator to follow.

Why? Isn't economic activity a very good proxy for normal human life, good living standards, and the capacity to adapt to any conceivable challenges? Limited economic impact from climate change is arguably the most important and positive climate related news you could ever hope to see.

> I would rather follow "number of excess death directly or indirectly linked to climate change." I don't know if that can be calculated somewhere.

Excess deaths due to climate change, or perhaps a ratio of excess deaths relative to the total population, might be a great metric to consider. But how could one even begin to calculate this in a way that wasn't agenda driven? One could spin pretty much anything as directly or indirectly linked to climate change. Maybe you won't, but others will.

If there's bad political policies that screws over the global economy (possibly caused by the attempt to react to climate change itself) and masses starve to death the "experts" can spin it as "Economic pressures from climate change killed these people."

If there's government incompetence that poisons some water supply and kills a bunch of people the "experts" can spin it as "Pressures from a changing climate contributed to a reduction in the fresh water supply that contributed to mass deaths."

If there's some civil war that kills a bunch of people the "experts" can spin it as "Civil strife brought about partially from the social pressures caused by economic inequality due to a lack of climate justice caused this."

If there's any natural disaster that kills a lot of people the "experts" can spin it as "Continued impacts from climate change contributed to the massive death toll."

Voila, climate change directly or indirectly killed 2 billion people over some large time period, depending on how you count it.

Whether you agree with it or not, using that metric is going to feel a lot like Covid where both sides see the "other side's" statistical interpretation of reality as completely untrustworthy.

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#53
post #32
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I always find so hard to believe is that, knowing how well we can predict weather and other complicated systems, climate change science somehow is able to make 1/10 centigrade precision predictions on time horizons of decades and centuries.

Do you also find it hard to believe that casino can say your chance of winning roulette is 1/37 (and you're gonna lose money), despite the fact every roll is random? Both are just law of large numbers.

Strange to compare the random results of a spinning wheel three feet wide in an air-conditioned room to a planetwide system, isn't it?

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#54
post #46

It was refreshing to see Greta delete her "were all doomed in five years tweet from 2018" last week. They also took down the signs in Glacier Park that predicted the glaciers would be gone by now near where I live.

Should they take down those signs? I would personally prefer for things like that to stay up with contextualization about how scientific understanding has changed and why the prediction was wrong.

The predictions were not wrong. Society changed, people reacted to Greta and others, and that changed the situation, and thus the predictions. The Pandemia and pausing industries on a global scale did their own share. And as sad as it is, the war in Ukraine was finally a massive boost for changes in Europe's energy-infrastructure. People previously thought it would take decades, what now is finished in some years.

The initial predictions at the time were for the situation then, but if the situation changes, the predictions won't become wrong, just outdated.

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#55
A major addition to this report compared to previous ones was the emphasis on "demand side" mitigations. That means scaling down excess energy use in a way that doesn't compromise people's quality of life.

For example this paper suggests that in the UK a reduction of 52% by 2050 compared with 2020 levels is possible.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-022-01057-y

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#57
post #45

It was refreshing to see Greta delete her "were all doomed in five years tweet from 2018" last week. They also took down the signs in Glacier Park that predicted the glaciers would be gone by now near where I live.

Is your point that sometimes people get predictions wrong?

Not the GP, but sure, if the people making those wrong predictions are advocating for policy changes that will impoverish so many people.

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#58
post #50
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And underestimating what's actually going to happen, and how difficult it's going to be to reverse, or even put brakes on it is intellectually criminal, but the pro-AGW group hasn't ever cared about that. Why would they, the track record of 'Let industry self-regulate' has worked out great for them in the past. We're going to blow right past 1.5C, 2C, 2.5C...

Longer term projections on 2.5C look more hopeful. Globally electricity production has gotten significantly more green, though offset by increased demand. But, new coal power plants for example were down 66% globally in 2020 vs 2016 and existing infrastructure only lasts so long. Project things forward to 2040 and emissions should be noticeably below current levels even with increasing demand simple because of econom…

Coal is only going out of style because we are building out new natgas plants. The greatest trick that has been pulled on us this century is somehow billing gas as a 'green' source of energy.

Electric cars are an expensive distraction from the problem. The sustainable future of transportation is the electric train, the electric trolley, the electric scooter, and the electric bicycle. Personal automobiles, electric or otherwise, were, are, and will continue to be an environmental catastrophe.

And while we can electrify some fraction of personal automobiles by 20whenever, we aren't lifting two fingers on the task of rebuilding our societies to be less car-manic. A few underused bike lanes, a few rental scooters scattered around town, and a light rail extension 10 years from now aren't it.

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#59
Assume we hit 1.5C and "nothing happens" does this help the cause?

While I'm very concerned about how unchecked climate change could impact future crop yields I also worry that having a hard line like this probably won't help convince anyone, and could counter intuitively act as a "I told you so" for climate denialists when the world doesn't fall apart as soon as we hit 1.5C.

A lot of the more convincing arguments I hear from climate denialists (I hate that phase btw) is that past climate models have been highly inaccurate and many claims and concerns have in time been proven overstated. This is somewhat true.

But here we are once again looking down on the masses and effectively saying, "you plebs just don't get it, this is your final warning before you all die".

I think I'd rather the data was presented with less emotion and I think that would be more convincing personally, but at the same time I suspect we're probably going to have to see some dire consequences of climate change before any serious action is taken.

Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’

#60
post #30
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way except property seizure and capital reallocation at a large scale. This wont happen, so we're effectively doomed to suffer the slow violence of the inaction of our owners who themselves will never live to feel the harm they're aiding and abetting.

Can you go into a bit more details? What are the next step after property seizure, and where is the capital deployed?

Mass property seizure and capital reallocation, i.e. a revolution on a global scale, will inevitably lead to the deaths of millions and a setback on living standards for the rest, i.e. degrowth; which will accomplish the objective of fewer carbon emissions.
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