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Bitwarden PINs can be brute-forced

ambiso.github.io

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Re: Bitwarden PINs can be brute-forced

#51

The moral of the story here seems to be: if you want convenience you'll compromise your security. This is not exclusive to BW. Or if you want a moral of the story specific to the article: Don't use the PIN feature in BW. And perhaps, instead of a PIN use a physical key (e.g., YubiKey).

I think TPM and secure enclave provide the convenience without compromising security?

Re: Bitwarden PINs can be brute-forced

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PIN is a de-facto very weak password. Of course it can be brute forced!

If you limit number of attempts, can it still be brute forced?

How can you enforce a limit when the decryption is done client side?

Re: Bitwarden PINs can be brute-forced

#54
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a choice on the user to weaken the encryption. I don't use Bitwarden, but if they communicate that properly to the user, it's a valid compromise for convenience-versus-security.

This doesn't answer the question. Why is there a choice to encrypt something when it's completely unnecessary (according to their threat model)? No point in building unnecessary complexity into software, especially software meant for security.

The client-side lock of 5 PIN attempts solves the much more common threat model the layman is concerned with.

Re: Bitwarden PINs can be brute-forced

#56
post #20

The author mentions this finding was marked as out-of-scope when they reported it to Bitwarden. A couple of categories that are considered out-of-scope are listed, namely: attacks requiring physical access to a user's device, and "other side of airtight hatchway"[0] type issues. The latter seems reasonable, if the assumption is that the device is fully compromised, and ongoing surreptitious monitoring of user activit…

A PIN is a de-facto very weak password. Of course it can be brute forced!

In the case of Windows Hello, a PIN is very different from a password (such as your live.com password). PINs are encrypted per-device, and are never transmitted from the device. They are resilient against rainbow table brute-forcing, and they generate asymmetric cryptographic key-pairs by using the device TPM.

So forget what you know about ATM PINs; this is a markedly different concept.

Re: Bitwarden PINs can be brute-forced

#57
>If accessing device-local data is outside of the threat model, why are we encrypting these data at all? We might as well store them in plain text.

The PIN is still potentially useful in that it prevents anyone with access to the device from getting access to the secret information without having to perform an overt act. The difference between leaving a piece of paper with the passwords laying about and locking it in a drawer.

Re: Bitwarden PINs can be brute-forced

#58
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PIN is a de-facto very weak password. Of course it can be brute forced!

Indeed, which is why Bitwarden should disallow pin-only access for offline vault data altogether. Admittedly, I'm valuing a safe interface for users much more highly than one that is convenient or ergonomic.

It's the user's choice.
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