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Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

latimes.com

51–56 of 56 posts

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#51

Maybe overly simplistic, but what would stop the air inlet being positioned well forward of the engines. Perhaps even on the nose of the aircraft.

The air needs to be pressurized so people can breathe normally. The most convenient way to do this is to use bleed air from the turbine compressors, but no-bleed systems (e.g., https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_...) are possible.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#52

Maybe overly simplistic, but what would stop the air inlet being positioned well forward of the engines. Perhaps even on the nose of the aircraft.

Most aircraft get their pressurized air from the engine bypass air, off a system called the bleed air system (air is bled off of the bypass). Since the bypass air (air that is compressed but not used for combustion, it makes jet engines more efficient) is already pressurized by engine operation it's sort of "free compressed air" and used for a few different purposes. That said, some newer aircraft are choosing to simplify design by eliminating the bleed air system and instead using electrically-driven compressors for cabin air. One advantage this has is that the air doesn't require initial cooling like bleed air does due to the engine bypass being so hot. Mostly, though, it's being done for the reduced cost/complexity and increased safety of eliminating the air lines from the engines.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#53
The German media made a documentary about this (~2013) and I started to fly with a special mask capable of filtering the toxic fumes. People kind of stared at me, when it was not normal to fly with a mask.. Crazy, that it took more than 10 years before things are finally starting to change.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#54
Commercial jets are not required to have Carbon Monoxide detectors? The Cessna 172 I flew for flight training had one of these $5 color-changing detectors. Surely we should have comprehensive monitoring for CO and volatiles.

https://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/4420

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#55
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are implying conspiracy-like behavior, instead of recognizing the absurd rarity of the event: > "Over a two-year period, nearly 400 pilots, flight attendants and passengers reported receiving medical attention after these “fume events,” and four dozen pilots were described as impaired to the point of being unable to perform their duties, The Times found." This same two year period flew about 280 milli…

Low-level exposures will surely be MUCH more frequent than that. Harm caused by occupational exposure to hazardous chemicals is usually a chronic, cumulative, delayed onset type of thing.

I don't mean to downplay; clearly and surely this should be investigated.

But actually, I typo'd quite badly: the ratio is 1 in 700000, not 1 in 15000 (how did I make that mistake?)

Anyways, I hope it's clear that a 1 in 700000 event is hard to detect.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#56
post #18

Desperate measure to advantage Boeing and its B787 (and future aircraft) which are using electrical power to pressurize the cabin (vs bleed air for Airbus).

> Boeing and its B787 (and future aircraft) which are using electrical power to pressurize the cabin At this point any change from Boring gives me shivers. Like with MCAS I expect it to be half baked and have at least a couple of incidents before FAA steps in and they have to do something about it. Boeing has completely tarnished its brand name

I agree Boeing has issues but the 787 air system is good and probably the way forward. I flew one last week and it's nice knowing there aren't fumes in the air.

They did have some teething issues with the batteries going on fire but that seems sorted. (fire thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_gro...)

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