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California cancels salmon fishing season

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Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#51

Post by paulcole »

dzdt wrote: post #48
paulcole wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy people in developed countries won’t change. They either don’t want to inconvenience themselves or acknowledge that they’re the problem - or both. People will instead say nonsense like, “corporations are the problem.” I think it’s great that you’re taking steps to reduce your impact on the world (I’ve made many myself: no meat, no kids, no driving, no flying, small dense housing), but honestly don’t get your h…

Wealthy people's habits may be the problem, but its important to understand that putting the blame on individuals' choices is a trap and distraction. The solution is regulation. Heavy, obtrusive, expensive regulation, which is required because as you say most people won't change.

Yeah, I honestly don’t care if most people won’t change. I’ve done what I want to for the planet and I’ll be long dead before the bill for climate change really comes due. It’s their kids’ problem not mine. Good luck to them.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#52

Post by EngManagerIsMe »

Honestly, good. Our commercial fishing operations have really, really depleted stocks and we need more than a couple years to let them build back up.

It's one thing if you are out line fishing and throw back the live fish who are caught on your line you don't want. But net fishing and just destroying a huge percentage of whats in your net because it's not what you wanted is absolutely outrageous.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#53

Post by favaq »

wazoox wrote: post #37
myshpa wrote: post #15

It's not just the draughts. https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts "Species like thresher, bull and hammerhead sharks have lost up to 80-99% of their populations in the last two decades. Seabird populations have declined by 70% since the 1950's. Studies estimate that up to 40% of all marine life caught is thrown overboard as bycatch. Six out of seven species of sea turtles are either threatened or endangered due to fishing…

And in EU, the French government just announced that it will "strongly oppose" forbidding deep ocean scrubbing nets in "protected areas" (which are therefore totally unprotected). They look like caricature villains from a comic book or something. Bonkers. For history, here's the criminal, senseless moron, shame on him, shame on them all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtfGFt1c5H8

[flagged]

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#54

Post by narrator »

myshpa wrote: post #15

It's not just the draughts. https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts "Species like thresher, bull and hammerhead sharks have lost up to 80-99% of their populations in the last two decades. Seabird populations have declined by 70% since the 1950's. Studies estimate that up to 40% of all marine life caught is thrown overboard as bycatch. Six out of seven species of sea turtles are either threatened or endangered due to fishing…

The law of supply and demand expects the marginal cost of each additional fish to be more expensive. What if it's not. What if it costs the same amount of money to catch fish until you catch the very last fish. Suddenly the price of fish jumps from $.03/fish to infinity. Some sort of quota system has to be implemented and enforced to not come to such an abrupt halt on a market like that. Fish is one thing, at least there are alternatives, but peak oil, or peak natural gas are going to be, barring some technological mitigation, catastrophic to our modern way of life.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#55

Post by hexatin »

paulcole wrote: post #51
dzdt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy people's habits may be the problem, but its important to understand that putting the blame on individuals' choices is a trap and distraction. The solution is regulation. Heavy, obtrusive, expensive regulation, which is required because as you say most people won't change.

Yeah, I honestly don’t care if most people won’t change. I’ve done what I want to for the planet and I’ll be long dead before the bill for climate change really comes due. It’s their kids’ problem not mine. Good luck to them.

At the risk of being trite, your comment did make me think of the line from the end of The Lorax:

“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#56

Post by jterrys »

yesenadam wrote: post #34
myshpa wrote: post #15

It's not just the draughts. https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts "Species like thresher, bull and hammerhead sharks have lost up to 80-99% of their populations in the last two decades. Seabird populations have declined by 70% since the 1950's. Studies estimate that up to 40% of all marine life caught is thrown overboard as bycatch. Six out of seven species of sea turtles are either threatened or endangered due to fishing…

It makes me ashamed to be human. Reading stuff like that, and thinking about what we do to cows, sheep, lambs, chickens, etc, it dawned on me a while ago that humans have no right to treat animals like they're just a bunch of cells to be treated however we want, like a serial killer treats their victims. But that animals are fellow beings, a lot like us in many ways. I didn't want pain, or someone to kill me, so I fi…

>But that animals are fellow beings, a lot like us in many ways. I didn't want pain, or someone to kill me, so I figured they didn't either.

I respect your noble pursuit of not eating meat, and I have encountered arguments similar to yours enough times now that I feel compelled to respond in genuine kindness as someone who does like to eat meat (within "reason").

Animals are benignly cruel to each other beyond your imagination or the production of what nature documentaries will show you. Nature is a fight of survival. No animal wants pain or to be eaten, yet that is the reality that every wild animal faces. The conversation of humanizing animals is very interesting, but in the process we disregard the reality of their natural existence. Their lifespans are short, and often brutal. I weigh the reality of wilderness to the reality of industrial farming and ask myself if there isn't some kind of middle ground. I think there is. You can raise animals in pastures where they free range outside. They have a relatively peaceful, predation, free life after which you consume them (by killing them quickly and painlessly).

I deplore the reality of industrial farming and "agricultural waste". Chickens being raised for one singular body part and then thrown away. We do not treat any of our food with respect, living or otherwise. We are not efficient. We do not care about quality. We don't even try consuming the whole thing. That's where I find this industry disgusting. Meat should not be this disposably cheap.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#57

Post by Gordonjcp »

yesenadam wrote: post #34
myshpa wrote: post #15

It's not just the draughts. https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts "Species like thresher, bull and hammerhead sharks have lost up to 80-99% of their populations in the last two decades. Seabird populations have declined by 70% since the 1950's. Studies estimate that up to 40% of all marine life caught is thrown overboard as bycatch. Six out of seven species of sea turtles are either threatened or endangered due to fishing…

It makes me ashamed to be human. Reading stuff like that, and thinking about what we do to cows, sheep, lambs, chickens, etc, it dawned on me a while ago that humans have no right to treat animals like they're just a bunch of cells to be treated however we want, like a serial killer treats their victims. But that animals are fellow beings, a lot like us in many ways. I didn't want pain, or someone to kill me, so I fi…

The meat I eat comes from a ten minute bike ride's distance from my house.

The heavily-processed vegetable-based "product" aggressively marketed to you has been shipped halfway round the world, having been farmed using just about the least sustainable farming practices imaginable.

Which one is harming the environment?

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#58

Post by Marcan »

favaq wrote: post #53
wazoox wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in EU, the French government just announced that it will "strongly oppose" forbidding deep ocean scrubbing nets in "protected areas" (which are therefore totally unprotected). They look like caricature villains from a comic book or something. Bonkers. For history, here's the criminal, senseless moron, shame on him, shame on them all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtfGFt1c5H8

[flagged]

Is that some sort of racist comment? 30 seconds of Google search would've told you that he's a French citizen, speaking in the french senate in that video.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#59

Post by hadlock »

bradleyjg wrote: post #29
hadlock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a bombshell report about an immediate moratorium on crab fishing in Alaska, that came out of nowhere, seemingly. About a month later there was a (very, very quiet) report justifying the moratorium. The short version is that effectively scientists had been asking for reduction in fishing in the area for decades and finally the remaining stock in the area was so low it was critically endangering the ecosystem…

They did a moratorium on crab fishing by crab fishermen but allow trawling for groundfish that a) picks up crab as bycatch and b) destroys their spawning grounds. It’s not a great example of an effective policy response.

Yeah I suspect there's quite a lot of claw back by local government. Fishing is a rare industry where most boats are owner-operated and almost all their revenue is funneled back into the local economy (shipyards, shiphands who are employed on the boats themseves, marinas (usually owned by the city) etc) so for a place like alaska getting rid of fishing is hugely crippling for their local economy and the people who work in those towns. Take away fishing and the economy in these towns stops. There is no Fortune 50 company with infinite pockets to swoop in and "make things right" either via the goodness of their own hearts, or by lawsuits.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#60

Post by pertymcpert »

favaq wrote: post #53
wazoox wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in EU, the French government just announced that it will "strongly oppose" forbidding deep ocean scrubbing nets in "protected areas" (which are therefore totally unprotected). They look like caricature villains from a comic book or something. Bonkers. For history, here's the criminal, senseless moron, shame on him, shame on them all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtfGFt1c5H8

[flagged]

You have a history of posting thinly veiled racist comments.
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