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America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

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Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#51

Post by true_religion »

malermeister wrote: post #41
merpnderp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see comments like this and I wonder what do people actually learn in school. Adam Smith wrote extensively about this (surely people still learn about him). His premise were people are naturally greedy, and it is good to use a system that pits their greed against each other. A natural competition to provide goods and services to each other. And it has worked well for hundreds of years, pulling billions out of povert…

The problem with that naive viewpoint is that it assumes that greedy people that got successful playing the game won't use their power to mess with the rules. Once the first set of greedy people gets powerful enough, they change the playing field and cement their lead. 75% of those billions pulled out of poverty were in China [0], which is explicitly not capitalist. [0] https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release…

That report references the last 40 years. The previous comment is in the context of Adam Smith who died over 200 years ago.

Capitalism and democracy are older than the PRC, and the billions aided by it include the entire modern western world.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#52

Post by quxbar »

jaggederest wrote: post #43
EarlKing wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL that an independent contractor with his own tools has no capital. LOL.

That's called a laborer. Frequently they own their own tools. "Capital", in this context, means the ownership of the means of production (classically factories, but in this century as much pointed to data, land, and regulatory capture). Specifically, the means of production that you do not operate. If you must do labor for a living, you are not a capital owner. Stop identifying with the class of owners when you are a…

We castle and cathedral builders like to pretend there is great meaning in how we decide arrange the stones.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#53

Post by RedCondor »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #27
dragonwriter wrote: post #21

Capitalism always was cronyism (so was feudalism, but with a different favored class.) It hasn’t been replaced, some people are just realizing the things that have been pointed out since critics of capitalism coined the name “capitalism”, refelecting its favored-class orientation, for it.

Corruption, greed, and power dynamics are features of humanity. They are not the only features, but they have always existed, and be a challenge in any economic or political system.

[flagged]

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#54

Post by RedCondor »

vitessa wrote: post #48
b1c1jones wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you prevent capitalism and dollars being free speech from turning into oligarchy? Asking for a friend. Actually, a few billion friends, come to think of it.

You can’t. You have three options: 1. A violent revolution against capitalism that destroys it. 2. You slowly contain capitalism and wind it down, making the elite increasingly irrelevant, as it appeared the US and Europe might have been on track to do from 1933-73, until you’ve basically achieved socialism without necessarily calling it that. 3. Capitalism continues to corrode the restraints put in place to contain…

The only reason 2. happened anywhere on Earth for any period of time is because 1. happened in another. In other words, 1. is responsible for both 1. and 2.

https://redsails.org/concessions/

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#56

Post by [deleted] »

merpnderp wrote: post #20
dingusdew wrote: post #8

"Cronyism" is the long-term result of capitalism. It will always result in this type of corruption, it's the nature of an economic system that rewards greed. Cronyism is just another way to say "Late Stage Capitalism."

I see comments like this and I wonder what do people actually learn in school. Adam Smith wrote extensively about this (surely people still learn about him). His premise were people are naturally greedy, and it is good to use a system that pits their greed against each other. A natural competition to provide goods and services to each other. And it has worked well for hundreds of years, pulling billions out of povert…

[deleted]

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#57

Post by kelseyfrog »

b1c1jones wrote: post #19
vitessa wrote: post #7

This was capitalism, a beacon of hope for people who are smart, hardworking, and comfortable with risk, promising a greater share of the spoils to them than to those who are not. Wrong. That’s not what capitalism is or means. Capitalism is an economic system in which private investors run the economy in search of personal profit, while those who lack capital rely on wage labor to survive. You can debate whether this…

How do you prevent capitalism and dollars being free speech from turning into oligarchy? Asking for a friend. Actually, a few billion friends, come to think of it.

Dual currencies. Denominate capital in USDC and keep USD for everything else. Make conversion from USDC to USD transparent/illegal/a-point-of-friction/technically-impossible/socially-impossible/whatever-else.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#58

Post by throwawaylinux »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #40
malermeister wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just had all of the VCs show their ass (including the ones running this very site) by begging Big Government to please step in and bail them out. It's capitalism, not the government.

As someone once said, there are no atheists in a foxhole, and no libertarians in a bank run. I've seen this tired argument so many times in last year: you make millions pumping crypto, you're just a genius capitalist and not a regulatory arbitrageur. If you lose money falling for another person's pump and dump, it's the government's fault for not saving you or making you whole. For these people, government only exist…

> As someone once said, there are no atheists in a foxhole, and no libertarians in a bank run.

This isn't all that profound though. People can advocate for a policy or structure of society while also acting in their own interests in any given situation. And you will find countless examples of that in any position or belief, whether it is social housing advocates lobbying against cheap housing being built in their neighborhood or climate activists flying their private jets around, or government school and healthcare advocates sending their family to private schools and hospitals.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#59

Post by emodendroket »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #35
emodendroket wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "robber baron" sounds so impossibly dated it's hard to take it seriously, and "oligarch" seems to be the favored term for when people have corrupt business relations in enemy states, so perhaps using "oligarch" is more illuminating for a modern audience.

It can be argued that the United States government is at war with its citizens...

Oh, come on, you know what I mean. Russia or other places with unfavorable relationships with the West we hear about “oligarchs” regularly.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#60

Post by kelseyfrog »

malermeister wrote: post #55
drak0n1c wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the USSR exactly communism?

The USSR never claimed to be communist. Communism is the end goal the USSR strived to achieve.

As well, USSR wasn't exactly a classless, stateless, moneyless society.
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