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Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

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Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#51
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Grooveshark are of questionable legality and use this model, yet they have not been shut down Except they're being sued by every single major label - and some internal emails from them are pretty damning. Same case as it is with Megaupload.

And I think that this is the point where a logical person who is somewhat "internet savvy" can deduce for himself why Megaupload and Grooveshark - while both profiting from IP which they do not own - cannot be, at least morally, judged the same way. The way I see it, Grooveshark is a service that is basically trying to force or at least demonstrate to the music industry what it is exactly that people want in an onlin…

>Megaupload on the other hand is a company whose sole purpose it to assist pirates. Without piracy there is no reason for the existence of such a service...

While you might be able to make that conclusion about Megaupload (based on some of their internal emails), making that conclusion about file locker services as a whole is complete hogwash. You don't think there's a legitimate reason for a person to be able to upload a large file somewhere for download by someone else? Really?

I can conclude nothing else from your stance but the fact you are either a troll or a paid shill. 5 seconds on google would provide numerous accounts of people who were using Megaupload for distributing their own content who were burned by this crap.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#52
This is really getting to the point of ridiculousness (if that's even a word).

Here's the plain fact: if a copyright holder notifies me that their material is being shared on my servers and I do nothing about it, I can get sued by them. If I do this on such a grand scale that there is obviously a blatant amount of copyrighted material and I still do nothing about it, the Feds will probably have to be the ones to shut me down until things get worked out.

This is what Megaupload was doing. This is not a grander problem that will hit Google or Youtube, they tend to remove copyrighted content pretty quickly.

All of this seems very similar to the Gizmondo/Stefan Eriksson deal where things just spiraled out of control into very questionable territory.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I think that this is the point where a logical person who is somewhat "internet savvy" can deduce for himself why Megaupload and Grooveshark - while both profiting from IP which they do not own - cannot be, at least morally, judged the same way. The way I see it, Grooveshark is a service that is basically trying to force or at least demonstrate to the music industry what it is exactly that people want in an onlin…

>Megaupload on the other hand is a company whose sole purpose it to assist pirates. Without piracy there is no reason for the existence of such a service... While you might be able to make that conclusion about Megaupload (based on some of their internal emails), making that conclusion about file locker services as a whole is complete hogwash . You don't think there's a legitimate reason for a person to be able to up…

>I can conclude nothing else from your stance but the fact you are either a troll or a paid shill.

Typical response from the "everything is a conspiracy" crowd that dominates these discussions so much.

Sure, people also used the service for legitimate purposes. If you think for one second that those people comprised more than 5% of the userbase (and that's being generous) or that Megaupload and similar services were setup to profit from those legitimate users and not from the pirates then you are simply being delusional. And there is no need for internal emails to reach that conclusion some experience and common sense will suffice.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#54

I've found the following to be of unparalleled utility in evaluating truth claims in journalism: If the headline ends with a question mark, the answer is "No." No caveats, no special cases, just "No." If the question asked had half a chance of being true, it would have been stated, not asked.

Also known as Betteridge's Law of Headlines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridges_Law_of_Headlines Although sometimes the answer can be "yes", because they phrase the ridiculous insinuation the other way. For example, "Do cellphones kill you?" follows Betteridge's law, but the (actual) CNN headline "Are cell phones safe to use?" asks the same question inverted.

I knew I'd seen it somewhere. Thanks for the link.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#55
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Megaupload on the other hand is a company whose sole purpose it to assist pirates. Without piracy there is no reason for the existence of such a service... While you might be able to make that conclusion about Megaupload (based on some of their internal emails), making that conclusion about file locker services as a whole is complete hogwash . You don't think there's a legitimate reason for a person to be able to up…

>I can conclude nothing else from your stance but the fact you are either a troll or a paid shill. Typical response from the "everything is a conspiracy" crowd that dominates these discussions so much. Sure, people also used the service for legitimate purposes. If you think for one second that those people comprised more than 5% of the userbase (and that's being generous) or that Megaupload and similar services were…

-snip, can't read, need coffee-

Is it a valid service to provide server space and linking of files for sharing with other people? Yes it is. That's what would be called a significant non-infringing use (and it's the reason that Rapidshare isn't shut down).

The fact that some people use it to break the law (much with guns, or computers, or any other tool) doesn't really change anything.

>If you think for one second that those people comprised more than 5% of the userbase

Prove it. The onus of proof is on you. Presumption of innocence and all that.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#56
post #30

Note: please read this all the way through before down/up voting. I'm not defending any actors here, I'm just trying to present an "all sides considered" view of the situation. I think there's a fair amount of "projecting" going on here. More and more, I see the intellectual property discussion being couched in the language of "looters, moochers, and parasites" (aptly borrowing from Ayn Rand). It's undeniable that th…

"Those with an objectivist viewpoint won't be able to see this scenario in any other way." What? The Objectivist viewpoint is exactly opposite to what you say. Intellectual property is property (Hank Rearden's steel formula was his and his alone, John Galt's engine is his and his ideas are his property) and strong intellectual property rights enforcement are natural rights of their holders, just like ownership of tan…

The idea of intellectual property itself is the problem in my opinion. It's not property in the way that we create analogies to, i.e. it's not like the car I have sitting outside right now nor the painting I made.

I own the car, it is my property, if you steal it you've deprived me of its use. If you damage it, I have to pay to have it repaired. If I do not maintain it it will no longer work, as well, it will on its own slowly deteriorate over time at which point I must replace it or live without.

Nor is intellectual property like that painting I produced. That painting took serious time to create and only one was created. I imagined it, and I painted it. However, someone can freely re-create something like it for themselves, selling it, however, would be considered forgery if they tried to pass it off as their own idea.

Digital though is a whole new medium. There are no forgeries or deprivation in digital medium. It is an exact replica of the original in every way and is never destroyed. "Piracy" as we use the term on the internet isn't even trying to take ownership of or steal the 'property' only redistribute it. People who are 'pirating' are also not trying to make money off of it (megaupload et al. are making money off of the service the 'pirates' host on not the 'property') but provide it (altruistically?) to others, often with the stipulation of "you like it you buy it".

Intellectual Property laws need to take a new medium into consideration, we can't just think of it in analogies to the physical world. It's not the physical world. Before the printing press we never imagined that books could be distributed en masse. That created a new type of property, however still restricted on production. The internet has created another, free production, and we/those in power need to realise that restructuring the internet in order to maintain a poor analogy is not the solution. We are a society of Remix, the internet allows us to this better than ever before. Why should we be squelching those who only want to continue the remix?

I understand many have heard all this before, but it sometimes feels like no one is listening.

As for MPAA/RIAA being the looters; there is no theft of digital products when looked at objectively---only when comparing to the physical medium and when creating analogies for explanation. We've already determined many file sharers purchase the products in addition to sharing. All throughout history we've traded what we love to each other, now we get to copy it to each other. Anecdotally it seems as though the property that is shared and not paid for wouldn't have been paid for in the first place.

Then here comes a large group of distributors claiming they represent artists (which, at some points they do) playing bully on the soccer field. Finding people who weren't the original distributors of their digital mind-share, turning them up-side-down, and ruining their lives by taking as much money from them as the courts will allow. A file-shared 'property' is not removing money from the pockets of the artist. It may stop money from being placed in their hand initially, however increases their audience. How many artists have people discovered solely because of a shared file?

Who's really depriving others of a livelihood? The MPAA/RIAA with obscene lawsuits with awards that can rarely be paid back or file-sharers increasing the audience of the artist/owner at the expense of direct compensation?

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#58

Egads! This a Tech Crunch article based on a Reddit post based on Google+ post. That Google+ post was also on HN last night so I'll just copy/paste my reply to that. "This is stupid and wrong. The investigation into MegaUpload took two years. This post wants me to believe the US government convinced the New Zealand government to perform a 70+ person raid in two weeks? The government can't give authorization to someon…

Stupid, wrong, and garbage are the correct words for this. People are taking leave of their senses over this bust.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#59
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those with an objectivist viewpoint won't be able to see this scenario in any other way." What? The Objectivist viewpoint is exactly opposite to what you say. Intellectual property is property (Hank Rearden's steel formula was his and his alone, John Galt's engine is his and his ideas are his property) and strong intellectual property rights enforcement are natural rights of their holders, just like ownership of tan…

Interesting comments, and well thought out. Yet, since you bring up Hank Rearden's formula, let's remember that Atlas Shrugged explicitly acknowledged that Rearden was leading a team of scientists and engineers. He was not a solo inventor. Even that team stood on the shoulder of giants, it would have not gotten so far had not previous generations invented steel on which it was based not to mention the metalurgical ad…

I have no objection to being downvoted, but since this was an attempt at a rational argument as part of a discussion rather than trolling, I would appreciate an explanation of what you think I got wrong.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#60
post #39
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shutdown of MegaUpload was the result of an FBI investigation that took place over the last two years. The idea that an international legal case with multiple extradition arrangements was motivated mostly by a music service launched a month ago is hard to swallow and distracts from the serious debate around online piracy and the future of copyright.

Police/investigators don't "schedule" take downs in the same sense that a programmer/manager would schedule a project launch. The FBI wouldn't plan to make the takedown they factor it around multiple situations and a big one is that of future "threat". The police gather evidence long enough until they have an open/shut case against the convicted but should intelligence arise that the suspect is planning a major move…

While the points you make are valid it is naive to believe that the FBI and other major government organizations are not political animals who will consider the political and PR impacts of such high profile raids. Like most things in life this is a very complicated issue with no black and white answers or clear division of sides.
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