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We should teach all our kids to code

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Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#51

Post by Volpe »

narrator wrote: post #40

I've taught several basic programming classes. The ability to code differs wildly. Like sketch art, some people can't draw to save their life, while others do it effortlessly. Having a programming class as an elective would be good, but it shouldn't be forced on people who have no ability for it at all. Not everyone can be great at everything.

Not sure I buy that arguement.

You wouldn't accept that if we said: Well not everyone has a "natural ability" to read, so we'll only teach the people that are show some "talent".

(Quotes because I don't actually believe those things exist, you can be taught everything, and be good at everything).

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#52

Post by SilasX »

bwarp wrote: post #3
apexauk wrote: post #2

This is an issue I'm very passionate about, and I'm sure many others are too. I'd love to hear other's thoughts on how we educate the next generation and the best way to teach coding in 2012.

I wouldn't bother. Why? It takes a certain mindset to write code. Not everyone has it or is interested in it. My children couldn't care less about it and that's up to them. They'd rather be digging holes in the garden and covering things in paint. I'm not here to indoctrinate them with my own interests but to nurture their interests. Education is fundamentally flawed on the basis that it mandates knowledge on politic…

This is something I don't quite understand. Yes, it takes a certain mindset to write code: mainly, you have to be able to convert a fuzzy process into precisely defined steps that generalizes over a range of possible inputs.

Is it something that most people really can't do? If so, that scares the hell out of me. And not because they can't write computer programs, either. My concern is, how sloppy is their thinking in general? How easily do they fall for circular arguments, or succumb to "lost purposes", where what they do no longer has any connection to their goals?

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#53

Post by dools »

Coding is easy and can be learned in a matter of months by anyone with a basic understanding of computers.

I'd rather teach my children things that get them out of the house exercising and learning to be friendly, well adjusted humans.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#54

Post by billpatrianakos »

So the title is misleading. Really, he's saying we should teach our kids to think like programmers, not to actually teach them code which is a far better idea.

In all honesty, people have an aversion to code like they have an aversion to anything math related besides simple arithmetic. I also disagree with his slight criticism of Codeacademy as being a place where people simply learn syntax. I was 10 years old when I wanted to know how we pages were made. I learned the HTML, then as I grew older learned the syntax. I only learned what I wanted to get something done. Eventually, through learning simple syntax I gradually began to understand the logic and theory behind programming. Of course I got much deeper into it during CS classes in college. My point is, people get turned off by code. Teach them how to print 'Hello World!' and you eventually teach them the underlying principles of programming in a sneaky way. It's like wrapping medicine in a piece of cheese so your dog will swallow it. If the dog knows its there he'll likely spit it out.

The title got me angry at first. I don't think we should be teaching children any specialized skill they don't have an interest in. My father is a pilot and tried to make me like flying because of the same kind of "this is good for you" thinking but it didn't work out. Also, as far as everyone using computers but only a few programming them, I think that's fine. It's more important that people get a broad overview of how hardware and software works and thats all. Does everyone need to know how to rebuild an engine to drive a car? No. Knowing how to check fluid levels, change a tire, and filter your oil will suffice.

Maybe I took it wrong but we don't need to teach our kids to code. There are a lot of ways to teach critical thinking skills (which is what he's getting at). Critical Thinking was a first year college course I was required to take. They should be teaching that course far far earlier here in the States. I was in AP classes all the way through school and even the Advanced Placement kids weren't offered a course even close to critical thinking.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#55

Post by drcube »

billpatrianakos wrote: post #54

So the title is misleading. Really, he's saying we should teach our kids to think like programmers, not to actually teach them code which is a far better idea. In all honesty, people have an aversion to code like they have an aversion to anything math related besides simple arithmetic. I also disagree with his slight criticism of Codeacademy as being a place where people simply learn syntax. I was 10 years old when I…

So you don't think kids should be taught to read if they don't have an interest in it? What about math?

Computing is a basic skill on the same level as math and literacy. It's only getting more important. You don't have to be an aspiring author for reading and writing to be relevant to your life. And you don't have to be an aspiring software engineer for basic computation and programming ability to be important in today's digital, networked world.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#56

Post by theDaveB »

Me and my son (aged 15) are trying to develop our first iPad app but he is not interested in the programming side at all. He is happy drawing out stuff on paper for the levels etc... So am not forcing the programming no him, if he has no interest. I just want him to have the experience of getting a app on the app store and knowing he was part of it.

We are using the Corona SDK (in case anyone is interested).

Dave

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#57

Post by ricree »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #37
jules wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massively popular games like Angry Birds are much simpler than Call of Duty. The basic mechanics of such a game are easier to create with today's hardware and tools than a sprite based game was a long time ago. Sure, you won't be able to get anywhere near the professional game quality, but you can still have a lot of fun. I remember buying a C++ game development book that spent a couple of chapters before getting the…

Developing angry birds whilst considerably simpler than Call of Duty is not that simple. At a minimum you have to implement smoothly scrolling graphics and quite a lot of physics. Of course there are libraries available which help with these things but then you have a lot of documentation to read (if it even exists). I believe angry birds cost in the region of $100,000 to develop. Not really a learning exercise for a…

Sure, but I'd imagine the bulk of that is spent on things that don't really matter in the context of kids making a game for themselves.

How much of that cost comes from sound, fairly slick graphics and animation, and the iterative polish needed to make a good game into a great one. I suspect that those things account for the bulk of the development cost.

The standards of polish for a hit game are far removed from what matters for getting kids into programming. The past generations making their text adventures didn't, for the most part, need to match the quality of Zork, and the current generation doesn't need to match Angry Birds. The point is to get them far enough that they could make something kinda sorta like it.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#58

Post by moocow01 »

drcube wrote: post #55
billpatrianakos wrote: post #54

So the title is misleading. Really, he's saying we should teach our kids to think like programmers, not to actually teach them code which is a far better idea. In all honesty, people have an aversion to code like they have an aversion to anything math related besides simple arithmetic. I also disagree with his slight criticism of Codeacademy as being a place where people simply learn syntax. I was 10 years old when I…

So you don't think kids should be taught to read if they don't have an interest in it? What about math? Computing is a basic skill on the same level as math and literacy. It's only getting more important. You don't have to be an aspiring author for reading and writing to be relevant to your life. And you don't have to be an aspiring software engineer for basic computation and programming ability to be important in to…

"Computing is a basic skill on the same level as math and literacy"

Its actually not as basic of a skill as math and literacy. Proof of this is that it takes math and literacy as foundational skills to then program. I agree that programming is a good skill but please don't pitch coding as being at the same level as basic literacy. The difference between someone who is illiterate and someone who is illiterate at programming is vastly different.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#59

Post by code_pockets »

The year was 1986, and I was on my first Disney World trip. After a couple of days of traveling up and down Florida visiting the various theme parks, my parents decided to stop at a local electronics shop.

Now, back at home we didn't have many fancy electronics stores, so this huge emporium of transistors was pretty amazing for all of us.

My mother hinted that they were going to buy us a Nintendo (NES), and I was ecstatic. I had never heard of such thing, but seeing Super Mario Bros. on the display machine was pretty mind blowing for an eight year old.

But, my oldest brother (who was a bigger nerd than me) did not want the NES. Crap. I was furious, and really disappointed. Instead, he wanted some stupid computer. It was big, bulky, ugly (light brown with black function keys!), and required a huge monitor to be of any use. It also required a disk drive (a 1541 model).

Yes, my brother wanted a Commodore C64.

So, my parents decided against the NES (oh the humanity!), and purchased the C64 with a 13-inch (I think) color monitor, a 1541 disk drive, and a color dot matrix Okidata printer. They must have spent like a million dollars. An amazing feat, because we were barely middle class.

After learning how to turn it on, writing to the diskette, printing demo images, playing Ultima, I started to code some BASIC. Nobody taught me, I just picked the manual and started coding.

My first programs were something along the line of:

10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 30 END

Now, for an 8 year old kid who was teaching himself how to use the damn thing it was pretty awesome to pull such simple programs.

Then at age 9 I bought my first "computer", a Tandy PC-7 at the local Radio Shack (after saving my lunch money for months).

Now, as a hacker/programmer/software engineer/whatchamacallit I look back at those days and appreciate what my parents and brother did.

Such experience has led me to teach my nine year old niece how to "program" in HTML. She enjoys it very much, and even asked me to put Ubuntu on her desktop. My daughter will also learn how to code, even though I don't expect her to follow in my footsteps.

tl;dr: Teach your kids how to code. They might go on to become hackers themselves.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#60

Post by moocow01 »

Volpe wrote: post #51
narrator wrote: post #40

I've taught several basic programming classes. The ability to code differs wildly. Like sketch art, some people can't draw to save their life, while others do it effortlessly. Having a programming class as an elective would be good, but it shouldn't be forced on people who have no ability for it at all. Not everyone can be great at everything.

Not sure I buy that arguement. You wouldn't accept that if we said: Well not everyone has a "natural ability" to read, so we'll only teach the people that are show some "talent". (Quotes because I don't actually believe those things exist, you can be taught everything, and be good at everything).

I don't think he's saying some people literally can not program one line of code. As with everything there are degrees of aptitude based upon ones interest, personality type and cognition. This is true with every skill in life - most people show degrees of aptitude in different areas. (As a note, Ive always struggled with being good at reading since I was a kid... Im really damn slow and have a hard time concentrating)
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