Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

storage.googleapis.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#51

Post by trompetenaccoun »

tialaramex wrote: post #49
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And minus the times when it gets stuck and needs to be rescued by human driver either remotely or an actual Waymo guy coming over and getting in the car. Doesn't happen every time of course but it does happen.

Remote humans can't drive Waymo's vehicles. They can reach into the car's model of the world to correct something it misunderstood (e.g. car is confused by misplaced cone and thinks the entire carriageway is closed, actually only the left lane is closed) but they can't control the vehicle remotely at all. It's extraordinary to me how many HN readers seem to think that somehow remotely driving cars would be a good ide…

Yes, that's why I worded it as rescue and not "drive";) When the car is stuck because of an issue the software can't resolve it needs human input.

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#52

Post by ethanbond »

tanseydavid wrote: post #39
pb7 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF is not an easy locale to test in. Sure, there is no snow, but the city is narrow, dense, with a lot of challenging situations including fog, rain, and crackheads. This success seems promising.

Don't forget the "pedestrian right-of-way" law.

It’s weird how every city in the country thinks this is some idiosyncratic thing that makes their city especially hard to drive in.

It’s illegal to hit people! If they step into the road, they have the right of way!

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#53

Post by jjcon »

jlmcguire wrote: post #6

This is a breath of fresh air compared to the tesla approach which seems to be don't release any data that isn't biased. Waymo is being a responsible party here by releasing all this data even if some of the stuff around the waymo driver hitting roadway objects (like the parking lot bar or the shopping cart) is a little concerning.

What exactly is biased about the Tesla data? If anything it is far less biased imo cause it is over a massive sample of 9 billion autopilot miles as opposed to 1 million (more than 9000x the sample size)

https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#54

Post by ahahahahah »

gregshap wrote: post #50
hardtke wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've probably driven half a million miles and I don't remember having 10 incidents (I probably have, just don't remember). So I'd conclude I'm at least as safe a driver as Waymo. Even if not true, most people are going to feel that way when they see the data. Human nature.

Probably more highway miles though to reach that number. City accidents I expect would be lower severity but higher frequency.

In addition, 40% of the waymo incidents were while the waymo vehicle was parked. I expect that (1) most drivers are unaware of incidents that happen while their car is parked and (2) waymo vehicles spend more time parked in less protected places (i.e. in parking lots waiting for riders to appear/enter/exit and not in a parking spot).

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#55

Post by kaba0 »

jjcon wrote: post #53
jlmcguire wrote: post #6

This is a breath of fresh air compared to the tesla approach which seems to be don't release any data that isn't biased. Waymo is being a responsible party here by releasing all this data even if some of the stuff around the waymo driver hitting roadway objects (like the parking lot bar or the shopping cart) is a little concerning.

What exactly is biased about the Tesla data? If anything it is far less biased imo cause it is over a massive sample of 9 billion autopilot miles as opposed to 1 million (more than 9000x the sample size) https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

Teslas turn off auto-pilot as soon as it finds a complicated situation, self-filtering better statistics. This also means they drive a shitton on highways, which are just simply ”easy mode”. A better statistic report would weight a mile of city driving conditions multiple times that of a mile on the highway.

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#56

Post by jjcon »

kaba0 wrote: post #55
jjcon wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is biased about the Tesla data? If anything it is far less biased imo cause it is over a massive sample of 9 billion autopilot miles as opposed to 1 million (more than 9000x the sample size) https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

Teslas turn off auto-pilot as soon as it finds a complicated situation, self-filtering better statistics. This also means they drive a shitton on highways, which are just simply ”easy mode”. A better statistic report would weight a mile of city driving conditions multiple times that of a mile on the highway.

None of that introduces bias - that is how the system is designed to work. My car has automatic cruise control that turns off in the rain. It does that FOR safety, not to boost any statistics.

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#57

Post by kaba0 »

jjcon wrote: post #56
kaba0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas turn off auto-pilot as soon as it finds a complicated situation, self-filtering better statistics. This also means they drive a shitton on highways, which are just simply ”easy mode”. A better statistic report would weight a mile of city driving conditions multiple times that of a mile on the highway.

None of that introduces bias - that is how the system is designed to work. My car has automatic cruise control that turns off in the rain. It does that FOR safety, not to boost any statistics.

Just because it was designed like that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t introduce bias.

Re: Safety performance of the Waymo rider-only automated driving system [pdf]

#58

Post by jjcon »

kaba0 wrote: post #57
jjcon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that introduces bias - that is how the system is designed to work. My car has automatic cruise control that turns off in the rain. It does that FOR safety, not to boost any statistics.

Just because it was designed like that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t introduce bias.

Bias suggests incomplete data or poorly sampled or manipulated - this is none of that. These are raw statistics on the functionality of a system - if you want to introduce bias to weight certain miles more than others that’s on you and you can do any analysis you want but Tesla is reporting what they should be - the raw statistics.
Post reply on HN