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The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

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Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#51

Post by CyanBird »

motohagiography wrote: post #42
ypeterholmes wrote: post #10

The premise here is very solid- shut down the small number of people that the Oligarchs depend on, and their ability to operate is curtailed much more effectively than trying to attack the oligarchs directly.

The challenge with it is that this doesn't generalize to any shared principle and it's cynical realpolitik dressed up as network science. I'd argue this paper is less a work of scholarship than an example of collusive, astroturfed, agitprop, where even though russia's oligarchs are an easy target because they are still new money and retain the taint of trade from the corruption that produced their fortunes, the autho…

From my naive perspective it almost reads that you won't be able to receive your money on the proper hongkong HSBC select account and are upset about it

Reality is that tax dodging is a wildly out of control problem, and worse it is considered to be de defacto standard to even run a business at all. From south Dakota to the city of London and beyond. It is really a problem

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#52

Post by berjin »

kornhole wrote: post #27
berjin wrote: post #21

Every time I have to fill in some AML (anti-money laundering) form I think how much of a waste of time and money it is for every party involved since the real big fish are getting around it with professional help. It's all very kafkaesque and invasive so I come to the conclusion it's more about powerful governments existing to gain more power than it is about solving any injustice.

Like many laws, they apply to you and me, not to the oligarchs. The international lawyers and accountants are the gatekeepers that navigate them through the loopholes.

Yes and they do it under the pretence of solving sexual slavery or child sexual abuse...yet at the same time how many global leaders have visited J.Epstein's island?

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#53

Post by CyanBird »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #9
rt4mn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the implications of bitcoin & cryptocurrency to let these systems grow & be harder to deal with has only gone up & up & up ever-more. While I agree the implications are concerning, I think its difficult to overstate just how much of a stranglehold the US regulatory and surveillance machine has over the global financial system. Trying to buy and sell things online without sharing your real name or address is functio…

"I should not have to share my bloody name or address with anyone to order a god damn box of chocolate." You don't. Get off your ass and go buy a box with cash. On the drive over meditate on who generally benefits when given the ability to move large sums of cash anonymously (hint: terrorist organizations, drug cartels, and tax dodging oligarchs).

Please, reminder that the cia literally funded their own international bank (bcci) in order to do their clandestine operations

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#54

Post by nine_k »

HashThis wrote: post #45
berjin wrote: post #21

Every time I have to fill in some AML (anti-money laundering) form I think how much of a waste of time and money it is for every party involved since the real big fish are getting around it with professional help. It's all very kafkaesque and invasive so I come to the conclusion it's more about powerful governments existing to gain more power than it is about solving any injustice.

100%. Elites are allowed to do "money laundering" while commoners are put in jail for it. FinCen exists to put commoners in jail, for the same things the Elites can do without going to jail. The Elites use Shell Companies to do the same tactics. The following have FinCen put commoners in jail, but elites move money the same way via Shell companies and stay out of jail: 1) Breaking up transactions, to hide total amoun…

From your comment, shell companies look like some magical protective gear.

Are they that expensive to set up? I think a discerning commoner could consider doing so if the amount of money is enough to certainly trigger AML.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#55

Post by nine_k »

anigbrowl wrote: post #40
majormajor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing will be 100% proof around evasion or exploitation. The answer isn't to do nothing and let it be a free-for-all.

That's not what was proposed. The problem is that things like KYC laws are now probing down to thresholds like $600, so the cumulative cost (both directly, of compliance, and indirectly, of overbearing surveillance, chilling effects etc.) is hugely increased for little benefit. In the name of limiting untoward concentrations of money capital, it creates untoward concentrations of political capital.

But this is like... killing two birds with one stone for, mmm, certain politicians?

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#56

Post by berjin »

ypeterholmes wrote: post #10

The premise here is very solid- shut down the small number of people that the Oligarchs depend on, and their ability to operate is curtailed much more effectively than trying to attack the oligarchs directly.

Is it a small number? I would guess most jobs in the City of London wouldn't exist if the loopholes were closed.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#57

Post by nine_k »

ted_bunny wrote: post #28
majormajor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing will be 100% proof around evasion or exploitation. The answer isn't to do nothing and let it be a free-for-all.

It's darkly funny how nearly every control mechanism in capitalist society equates to merely making a particular action more or less expensive.

Very unlike in historically known communist societies, where a mere bribe was not enough, you had to have access to a right person to bribe.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#58

Post by mikeyouse »

berjin wrote: post #52
kornhole wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many laws, they apply to you and me, not to the oligarchs. The international lawyers and accountants are the gatekeepers that navigate them through the loopholes.

Yes and they do it under the pretence of solving sexual slavery or child sexual abuse...yet at the same time how many global leaders have visited J.Epstein's island?

Maybe none? There's no evidence that Clinton or Trump ever visited the island, so I guess the 10th in line to the British Throne is probably the closest you can get to a "global leader"?

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#59

Post by jhobag »

berjin wrote: post #21

Every time I have to fill in some AML (anti-money laundering) form I think how much of a waste of time and money it is for every party involved since the real big fish are getting around it with professional help. It's all very kafkaesque and invasive so I come to the conclusion it's more about powerful governments existing to gain more power than it is about solving any injustice.

now go further down this line of thinking... how those with status and money must view the world as nothing more than theatrics. airport security theatre being the most obvious

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#60

Post by nine_k »

gabcoh wrote: post #30
leashless wrote: post #11

We're looking for the "Goldilocks Zone" of privacy. We want: * Enough privacy that activists don't wind up facing death squads * Not so much privacy that drug cartels wind up running the country. The problem is that cryptography is all or nothing: for a given observer, the transaction is either private or it isn't. I'm fascinated by models like differential privacy. Maybe there are ways of making systems which snare…

Small nitpick: it isn’t entirely true that cryptography is “all or nothing”. With things like time lock crypto and proof of work you can effectively have a scheme where large scale snooping is impossible (would take too much compute), but any individual transaction can be decrypted with a bit of work.

Ah, I remember the times when the US only allowed to export 40-bit RSA in order to be able to do just this. As a result, non-US versions of e.g. SSL were not as secure, and quickly became laughably inadequate.

Frankly, I think that was mostly silly: you can either keep some math completely secret, or deal with the situation when the adversary knows the math a perfectly as you do, and can implement relevant computation. Unlike building actual rockets, implementing relatively simple math is not rocket science.

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