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LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

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Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#51

Post by MavisBacon »

Syonyk wrote: post #28
mhb wrote: post #22

I don't understand the graph of Irradiance vs. Wavelength for an ebook vs. print book. It looks like the print book was read in the dark? Help.

It looks at the emitted energy from the screen. The ebook emits directly, a foot from your face. The paper book is reflected energy, at a rather higher reflectance and a rather lower energy. It's amazing how dim a light you can read a paper book in vs an e-ink ereader.

A lot of people over the age of 40 or even 35 are going to have trouble reading a physical text from a comfortable distance in light dim and warm enough not to affect one's circadian rhythm. Though I see your points and agree with aspects of this piece I also really struggle to see how a dim light close to your face is objectively worse than lighting your entire room in order to read a book and think extreme statements about the harms of LED/Blue light/Screens tend to more often than not generate unnecessary anxiety in a world where LEDs and screens are inevitable for many/most

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#52

Post by Psychlist »

The ebook reader part is kind of disturbing, I have a warm mode on mine that I always use, and the brightness set as low as it'll go (I find it too bright, but they seem to use a linear scale so there's not much range of adjustment).

I have a red LED striplight above my bed for reading paper books so I will try using that for the ebook reader and see if I notice a difference. My main issue is that interesting ebooks keep me awake longer than interesting paper books, I have a "no screens after 8pm" rule but wasn't counting the ebook reader as a screen.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#53

Post by MavisBacon »

jahsome wrote: post #21
karmaMeansCool wrote: post #15

There are also probably very personal and biological variables involved too that the post doesn't mention. I stare into monitors and phones all day long. Every light in the house is full-blown LED. I can't help but fall asleep at 20:00 in an led lit room watching led TVs, while my led phone drops onto the floor after I've fallen asleep. I've been in an extreme LED environment for over a decade and never have problems…

I've battled the opposite in the form of clinical, anxiety-driven insomnia my whole life. I've found it utterly debilitating at times and have quite literally struggled since birth, long before electronics and LEDs were common. I can confidently say you're so right about the number (and type) of variables. Sleep hygiene as we say in the biz is a very complex and personal issue. I've tried everything under the sun fro…

I can relate deeply to this. Spent the last 2 years trying to get treatment for what turned out to be a neurological sleep movement disorder with an insomnia component. Basically I have sometimes ~150 involuntary limb movements/hr during sleep, they sometimes wake me up but even if they don't I wake up exhausted.

Things are getting better with medication finally, but yeah I've learned not to bring my sleep issues up with people generally. I diet, exercise, avoid caffeine and alcohol yes I've tried magnesium, as well as a slew of atypical antipsychotics, very old tricyclic antidepressants, and a parkinson's medication. Most people have a very hard time imagining what it's like to fight for each hour of sleep, so have a difficult time empathizing I think

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#56

Post by rootusrootus »

jahsome wrote: post #21
karmaMeansCool wrote: post #15

There are also probably very personal and biological variables involved too that the post doesn't mention. I stare into monitors and phones all day long. Every light in the house is full-blown LED. I can't help but fall asleep at 20:00 in an led lit room watching led TVs, while my led phone drops onto the floor after I've fallen asleep. I've been in an extreme LED environment for over a decade and never have problems…

I've battled the opposite in the form of clinical, anxiety-driven insomnia my whole life. I've found it utterly debilitating at times and have quite literally struggled since birth, long before electronics and LEDs were common. I can confidently say you're so right about the number (and type) of variables. Sleep hygiene as we say in the biz is a very complex and personal issue. I've tried everything under the sun fro…

I sympathize, having suffered from bouts of insomnia for decades. I'm with you, in that none of the oft-cited 'cures' ever worked for me.

My most recent 'solution', which has been working better than most attempts, is reading. On my phone, because my eyes are old. Doesn't matter that it's a screen, lit by LEDs. All that matters is that it's not real life (no news, or anything along those lines). Fantasy fiction mostly for me. Gets my mind to quit spinning about real life issues, and after a little bit I can feel myself getting sleepy so I drop the phone.

I wish you nothing but the best of luck finding something that works for you. Few things are more irritating than routinely spending hours in the middle of the night staring up at a dark ceiling.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#57

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

Syonyk wrote: post #46
walterbell wrote: post #26

Comparison of sub-$20 LED Light Bulbs with low Kelvin, 90+ CRI and low flicker, https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/the-best-daytime-white-li...

Thanks, I'll order some of those and put them through my spectrometer!

If you're willing, it would also be interesting to hear how the Bedtime Bulb from a past Show HN fares: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18011075

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#58

Post by etrautmann »

MavisBacon wrote: post #53
jahsome wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've battled the opposite in the form of clinical, anxiety-driven insomnia my whole life. I've found it utterly debilitating at times and have quite literally struggled since birth, long before electronics and LEDs were common. I can confidently say you're so right about the number (and type) of variables. Sleep hygiene as we say in the biz is a very complex and personal issue. I've tried everything under the sun fro…

I can relate deeply to this. Spent the last 2 years trying to get treatment for what turned out to be a neurological sleep movement disorder with an insomnia component. Basically I have sometimes ~150 involuntary limb movements/hr during sleep, they sometimes wake me up but even if they don't I wake up exhausted. Things are getting better with medication finally, but yeah I've learned not to bring my sleep issues up…

This sounds naive perhaps but would velcro straps or other gentle arm restraints prevent movement and allow you to sleep better?

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#59

Post by [deleted] »

boc wrote: post #37
adammarples wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Candles also supposedly awful for PM 2.5

What about pilot lights on a stove/oven? I have an old-school unit in my house that has three pilot lights that are always on... the put off a fair bit of heat. I don't love the idea of them burning constantly from an energy standpoint, but I didn't consider the health effects...

[deleted]

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#60

Post by rootusrootus »

boc wrote: post #37
adammarples wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Candles also supposedly awful for PM 2.5

What about pilot lights on a stove/oven? I have an old-school unit in my house that has three pilot lights that are always on... the put off a fair bit of heat. I don't love the idea of them burning constantly from an energy standpoint, but I didn't consider the health effects...

Not nearly as bad as a candle, so long as the flame is burning blue.
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