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SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

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Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#51

Post by pwinnski »

CosmicShadow wrote: post #44
ramesh31 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SEC is, largely, a powerless bogeyman due to chronic underfunding and lack of staff. Another wonderful feature of corporate regulatory capture in the US.

But what kind of staff or funding does it take to say literally different words out of your mouth like, you are fined $5B instead of $5MM? I can do that for free, especially if they are already at the point where they are making the charge. Every fine should be devastating so that they either barely survive or die, and every other company shits themselves for life and we solve the problem.

Hence the phrase "regulatory capture" which describes a system in which unelected bureaucrats are not given life-and-death power over companies, but the people who set the rules are wholly captured by the regulated companies so the rules are made weak.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#52

Post by tptacek »

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

- $5 million in fines, for - 22 years of willful reporting violations - using 13 shell companies - to conceal ownership of a $32 billion portfolio I'm sure they're gutted by this ~0.016% fine.

Why would the fine be higher? Presumably it's proportionate to the harm caused, not by the size of the fund.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#54

Post by ramesh31 »

CosmicShadow wrote: post #44
ramesh31 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SEC is, largely, a powerless bogeyman due to chronic underfunding and lack of staff. Another wonderful feature of corporate regulatory capture in the US.

But what kind of staff or funding does it take to say literally different words out of your mouth like, you are fined $5B instead of $5MM? I can do that for free, especially if they are already at the point where they are making the charge. Every fine should be devastating so that they either barely survive or die, and every other company shits themselves for life and we solve the problem.

>But what kind of staff or funding does it take to say literally different words out of your mouth like, you are fined $5B instead of $5MM?

Because we don't live in an autocracy, and government fines can (and are) successfully challenged in court. It takes an immensely greater effort, and immensely greater resources, to enforce a $5B fine vs a $5M fine.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#55

Post by shartshooter »

One question I had while reading this:

- Should non-profits be allowed to "invest" their tax-exempt donations?

It seems that non-profits should obtain their funding through grants or donations. Investing, on the other hand, seems like the opposite of "non-profit"

As a personal aside, I've recently been introduced to a few folks who seem to be doing extraordinarily well financially. It turns out that they all run "non-profits." And not just any non-profit, but firms that were started by their parents.

Question for everyone: I'm not nearly as aggressive about finding tax deductions as I could be. Am I just a suck here?

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#56

Post by tarotuser »

A "religion" primarily assumes standard Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, etc: all of which have buildings, assets, collections, and such.

For those of us who either have a solitary practice or meet with a small group (coven), none of our costs for our practices are tax exempt. If we are large enough, we usually cannot be "acknowledged by the state" to get tax exempt status. When we do get enough people in our group, it's an uphill slog to even get acknowledged as 'real', although there are few and far between covens which have won what the Christians get already.

https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/nonprofit/2011/03/witches-...

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/pagans-weigh-in-on-the-laws-o...

https://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Court-considers-neo...

Basically, the Christians get away with using tax exempt status, and then populate things like "megachurches" (aka: church-based tax fraud). Those of us with less common beliefs are given the short shrift, and default treat our beliefs as "not worthy of federal and state tax exemption".

When the IRS and state tax entities start playing games of discerning which belief is real and not, is a grave concern for 1FA. The state should never be in the business of saying whose beliefs are real or not.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#57

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

emodendroket wrote: post #16
jmclnx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and I think this Church has an oversized influence on US Politicians. But I agree, the fine should be large enough to send a clear message to other orgs like them.

Right, but I meant it’s likely to be portrayed as an out-of-control regulatory apparatus going after religious conservatives even though they used the kid gloves.

The fundies only care about their sect. As far as they're concerned LDS is a bunch of apostates.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#58

Post by xboxnolifes »

Natsu wrote: post #15
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to just get rid of the tax exempt status for religious organizations altogether. They can operate like any other non-profit and be subject to that set of rules, or they can be a regular corporation and be subject to a different set of rules. The religious exemption is a big regulatory gap that doesn't need to exist.

That exists so that the government can't just decide to tax one religion out of existence while favoring others.

Sounds like the opposite. To qualify for religious tax exemption you need to actually prove to be, and practice as, a "real" religion. If there is no tax exception, it's more fair.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#59

Post by bigtex »

tombert wrote: post #24

Nearly every Baptist church/preacher I have seen explicitly endorsed Donald Trump in 2020, and calls Joe Biden an election thief (or one of a dozen other conspiracies). My understanding is that this is in direct violation of their tax-free status [1]. Maybe we should actually start enforcing this. [1] https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/charities-churches-and-politics EDIT: I couldn't remember the name of the thing that sta…

I assume this also applies to the churches who had Raphel Warnock on stage and told the congregants to vote for him. FYI, he is a democrat.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#60

Post by shadowgovt »

tptacek wrote: post #52
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

- $5 million in fines, for - 22 years of willful reporting violations - using 13 shell companies - to conceal ownership of a $32 billion portfolio I'm sure they're gutted by this ~0.016% fine.

Why would the fine be higher? Presumably it's proportionate to the harm caused, not by the size of the fund.

It's actually a settlement, not a fine, which is probably pinned closer to the "This is the amount we think we'd have to pay lawyers to argue the case" value than the "This is how much we would owe if we were found guilty of breaking the law" value.
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