Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#51

Post by fallingknife » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:06 PM UTC

skeeter2020 wrote: post #32

>> another innovative company, this one focused on the crucial task of getting people out of their cars and onto other modes of transportation as climate changes worsens and our streets feel like one huge traffic jam. Oh please; scooters don't get people out of their cars and they're essentially treated like short-life disposable goods. They're a convenient alternative for short-distance trips, like zipping through a…

> Oh please; scooters don't get people out of their cars

> They're a convenient alternative for short-distance trips

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#52

Post by htag » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:06 PM UTC

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #35

pyb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the extra costs to the healthcare system. These things are not safe!

In SF, _what_ healthcare system? Wouldn't surprise me if some HMO is bankrolling Bird and waiting for those sweet, profitable trauma cases.

How does an HMO make money from trauma cases? My understanding is a member of the HMO seeking medical treatment will cost the HMO money, and their only source of revenue is insurance premiums.

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#53

Post by throw__away7391 » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

Even in so called "walkable" cities in the US, the car is king. Cities who have bulldozed entire neighborhoods to save drivers 5 minutes of waiting in traffic cannot fathom anything rising above the slightest accommodation for any vehicle that weighs less than 1000kg.

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#54

Post by solarman5000 » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

I also left California because of the regulations and hidden taxes everywhere. They made it Very difficult for a hardware startup company.. If you don't have angel investors, don't bother opening up in Cali, go to a more friendly state

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#55

Post by danans » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #35

pyb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the extra costs to the healthcare system. These things are not safe!

In SF, _what_ healthcare system? Wouldn't surprise me if some HMO is bankrolling Bird and waiting for those sweet, profitable trauma cases.

The business model of health insurance it's generally about minimizing the amount of avoidable medical care dispensed, not maximizing it.

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#56

Post by boc » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

badrequest wrote: post #24

Anecdotally, nobody likes these scooters and I can't imagine any normal person who isn't financially invested in their success would care when they leave. They are a very dangerous and gimmicky mode of transportation in a nation where we could all use to walk much more than we do.

I loved them when they first arrived- cut my walking commute into downtown from 20 minutes to about 4 minutes, plus they are super fun to rip down hills and fast since you can lane split through traffic.

I think of it like skiing- sure there’s a lot of potential risk but it’s a super enjoyable of getting around. Bird was the first scooter I ever rented when they launched in SF and I loved it. It was so much fun waiting at stoplights with other scooter riders next to you chatting and racing together to make the next light. Then the city threw all the birds in trucks one night and took away the fun.

For a website that often complains about how mundane modern life has become, it’s ironic to see so much hate directed at a fun, novel way of moving around the city.

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#57

Post by fallingknife » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #33

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last mile problem exists even in NYC. Also, the geography and weather of SF isn't the same as NYC so you can't just cut-and-paste a solution from one to the other like a block of code from StackOverflow.

Last mile problem? There's a subway station almost every 3-4 blocks in the entire city. Nowhere did I say it's a cut and paste solution. I said invest in the trains they have already instead of dumping money on scooter startups.

Not in the entire city, only Manhattan (and not even all of it really). And it works because Manhattan has 4x the population density of SF, which is yet another problem that SF prevents from being solved.

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#58

Post by mrighele » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #13

Once said that the "too high fines" sounds like an excuse, I am not sure to understand the logic of the fines (i.e. the attributing them at least partially to the company). When you rent a car, the driver/renter pays all fines during the rent period, except maybe those related to the car itself not being fit for street use. Why is this different for these scooters?

When you rent a car any fine is notified to the rental company which then forwards it to you.They can do this because there is paper that you signed that says that at that time you were driving. In the case of a scooter there is just a row on a db, I don’t know if that is enough to shift responsibilities, thought if they wanted they could address it (for example I remember that in one place users are required to take a photo of the scooter before leaving it) but part of the appeal is that you can just leave the scooter anywhere as soon as you reach your destination

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#59

Post by roughly » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #48

roughly wrote: post #15

There’s no way to profitably run a company like Bird without foisting the externalities on someone else. Their model is literally to dump a bunch of electric scooters on the side of the road with QR codes on them and just hope for the best. Of course they’re going to get fined when their property is left blocking driveways, of course they’re going to be expected to clean up the piles of scooters that get thrown in th…

"foisting the externalities on someone else" is how all profitable transportation works though. Uber clogs the streets with circling cars waiting for pickups. private cars are scattered all over the streets and are the single most dangerous thing in a city. cars, trains, taxis, buses, everything all create huge amounts of noise pollution. airplanes and gas powered cars create air pollution. just pushing through and p…

Bird's big mistake is they chose a particularly stupid variety of a business plan here - if they'd done something like selling the scooters for cost but making people pay a subscription to use it or something, they'd be free & clear, because what people did with their scooters wouldn't be Bird's problem. Bird's mistake is that every Bird scooter is owned by Bird Inc., which means Bird Inc. is held accountable for every stupid thing someone does with a Bird scooter.

Re: Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

#60

Post by throw__away7391 » Sat, Feb 18, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

nzoschke wrote: post #41

SF resident here. The on-demand scooter rentals model needs more thought. The scooters are often broken, not charged, under powered or unsafe (unless you bring your own helmet) to get around. Ppl leave them blocking sidewalks and etc. Best thing I ever did was buy my own ebike. Battery powered personal vehicles are the answer, and ownership pays off quickly compared to Ubers and parking and rentals. I hope the city b…

I much prefer my own scooter, however the rideshare model has a single absolutely massive advantage over private ownership: once you get where you're going you don't need to worry about it getting stolen.

I have the best lock I could find and glued an Apple AirTag to the inside, but still whenever I go to dinner on my scooter I spend 5 minutes trying to find a place to park it and convince the restaurant staff to give me a seat where I can see it (although some very nice people will sometimes let me fold it up and store it inside the restaurant behind the front desk or something), then spend the entire time worried about it getting jacked while I'm eating. I tend to visit only restaurants with sidewalk dining as a result, and I often take a car instead for anything like shopping where monitoring it isn't possible.

Wide availability of secure parking infrastructure (or maybe even law enforcement attempting to do something about theft in the first place) would go a long way toward making private e-vehicles viable transport IMO.