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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#51
post #5

I'm astonished consumers are still paying fifteen thousand dollars to be guinea pigs for this bullshit. No car that currently has tires on the road is going to let you fall asleep in your driveway and wake up at work.

The "still" is what surprises me. Back in 2016 or 2017, I was excited. Musk still seemed like a pretty stable person back then and Tesla had basically executed on its promises and Musk said that by the end of 2017 you'd be able to drive from NY to LA without a single touch on the wheel. Everyone had said that EVs were doomed and Tesla really showed otherwise. Why not believe him? I like being hopeful about the future.

At this point, it's looking pretty far off, especially for Tesla. Even Cruise and Waymo are having issues and they have far better sensors than Teslas. It seems silly to be paying $15,000 for something that realistically might not happen during my ownership of the vehicle.

Even if it does happen, I can purchase it later. Sure, it's cheaper to purchase with the car because Tesla wants the money now. However, I'd rather hedge my bets and with investment gains on that $15,000 it might not really cost more if it actually works in the future. 5 years at 9% becomes $23,000 and I don't think Tesla will be charging more than $25,000 for the feature as an upgrade (though I could be wrong). If we're talking 10 years, that $15,000 grows to $35,500 and I can potentially buy a new car with that money.

Plus, there's the genuine possibility that the hardware simply won't support full self driving ever. Cruise and Waymo are both betting that better sensors will be needed than what Tesla has. Never mind the sensors, increased processing power in the future might be important. If current Teslas don't have the sensors or hardware ultimately needed, one has paid $15,000 for something that won't happen. Maybe we will have self driving vehicles and the current Teslas simply won't be able to do that even if you paid the $15,000.

It just seems like a purchase that isn't prudent at this point in time. The excitement has worn off and full self driving doesn't seem imminent. Maybe it will be here in a decade, but it seems to make a lot more sense to save that $15,000 (and let it grow) waiting for it to be a reality than paying for it today.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#52
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until your car decides to randomly slam on its brakes and cause a pile up.

I'm reminded of a thread on HN where someone did a cross country trip and their car only phantom-braked a couple of times, and called that a huge success.

Ha, my new Model 3 phantom braked the first time on the trip home from the service center, which was only 10 miles. I doubt it had even gone over 10 miles on the odometer at that moment.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#53

It seems like there is a huge disconnect between people who know about FSD from using it and people who know about FSD from things they read on the internet. I have FSD, I use it every single day. I love it. If every car on the road had this the road would be a substantially safer place.

FSD is terrible. I have it, it's dangerous. If I had to go 5 miles through city streets I'd sooner trust a human after 3 shots of tequila before I'd trust FSD every time.

Do you have the latest beta?

How did it improve in the last 12 months?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#54
post #2

Does a recall like this actually mean owners return their car to Tesla for modification? Or would it be an over-the-air update to remove FSD?

Almost all of these "recalls" that make the news are just software patches. The only difference between these and a normal patch is that customers get an email about it.

I can understand why people might think that all these recalls require going back to the shop, that's how most legacy makers work to this day.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#55

It seems like there is a huge disconnect between people who know about FSD from using it and people who know about FSD from things they read on the internet. I have FSD, I use it every single day. I love it. If every car on the road had this the road would be a substantially safer place.

It seems there’s a huge disconnect between people who know how to drive and are confident in their skills, and those who are scared to drive and want to offload it to Musk.

I’m actually afraid to drive behind a Tesla and either keep extra distance or change lanes if possible. I still have more faith in humans to not randomly brake them in beta FSD.

It’s one thing to put your own life in the hands of this beta model, and it’s another to endanger the life and property of others.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#56
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same experience. I think if there was more transparency in the data around FSD related accidents the conversation would be different. The last evidence we have is Tesla stating that there have been no fatalities in 60 million miles of driving under FSD. Pretty good so far.

Yes if we forget that the FSD may conveniently disconnect right before an accident

Yeah, let's now hear the stats on "fatal accidents within 30s of FSD being enabled".

You really just can't trust Tesla at all, about anything. There's no integrity there. They won't even be honest with the name of their headline feature!

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#58
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same experience. I think if there was more transparency in the data around FSD related accidents the conversation would be different. The last evidence we have is Tesla stating that there have been no fatalities in 60 million miles of driving under FSD. Pretty good so far.

Yes if we forget that the FSD may conveniently disconnect right before an accident

For Tesla's collection of data on accidents with Autopilot technologies, they considers Autopilot to have been enabled during the crash if it was on several seconds beforehand. These systems may hand control back to the driver in crash scenarios moments before impact, but that doesn't mean the data will report that the system was not enabled for the incident.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#59
post #44

I still can't believe FSD Beta was allowed on public roads. I've had it since day 1, and oh my god. It behaves worse than a drunk teenager. All the updates since, have made it barely better. This needs to be pulled entirely and rethought.

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#60

It seems like there is a huge disconnect between people who know about FSD from using it and people who know about FSD from things they read on the internet. I have FSD, I use it every single day. I love it. If every car on the road had this the road would be a substantially safer place.

As advanced cruise control? It's great. As what it's marketed as? It's fraud.

[flagged]
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