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Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

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Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#51

Somewhat tangential but an acquaintance at a Fortune-500 level company mentioned to me they are converting tons of currently salaried employees to hourly. These are white collar desk jobs at corporate HQ. I have to infer theres some sort of cost-cutting (wage theft?) motive behind this. Are these types of tactics becoming more prevalent in the white collar world?

My guess: so they can flexibly cut hours when they need to save a bit of costs in a way they can't with salaried employees.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really have a problem with this. The best organizations lean into the fact that an organization needs to do more than just make a product, they also need to help their employees "grow" in their career. For those interested in the management track, starting small with a small "blast radius" makes a lot of sense. The organization isn't saying that having managers for every 2 people is the best way to allocate m…

No disagreement on blast radius and the point on training new managers, instead what I find less logical is when a 50+ person organization has 25-30% of people as manager roles, meaning this isn’t an exceptional or temporary situation (i.e. training one or a small number of new managers), it’s actually a core part of organizational design.

It’s done like this bc leadership at those companies want to have certain number of directors reporting to them (for resume padding purposes). The directors then need sr manager reports who in turn need multiple manager reports, etc. Pretty sure it has nothing to do with concern for low level employees’ careers as up and coming managers

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlimited is such an absurd word. It should be "Flexible". It should be we will NOT fire you if you take 23.5 days instead of the ideal number of 22. Also, if you take 18 that is not a problem either.

It's not "flexible" either. It's "non-accrued". The only reason it's non-accrued is so that the company doesn't have to pay you left over PTO when you leave the company and gets it off their books. Everything else is a euphemism to make employees feel good about getting fewer benefits. You could have this flexibility with accrued PTO. I've previously given employees additional, off-the-books time off because they nee…

One hint is that you only see this in jurisdictions without strong labor laws around PTO. Some places, you have to give at least X weeks accrued a year for all full time employees (might be laddered by tenure) and you have to allow them at least Y continuous days/weeks per year; they may also have to to spend all of their accrued time within a short-ish window (limited rollover).

In this sort of environment, I've never seen a company claim "unlimited".

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#54
post #38

Start sending manager and hr to jail for wage theft. If an employee falsified timesheets they can and have been convicted of theft. Why isn’t the reverse true? Jail is a huge motivating factor and why you don’t see wide spread accounting fraud in public companies.

That's probably not a path you want to go down. Do we start putting employees in jail for wage theft?

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#55

Banks have been doing this for decades. If you're not a VP within 3 months some may wonder if something is wrong with you.

My time working at Bank of America was strange because of this. Everyone's title was either Analyst or VP.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#56

Somewhat tangential but an acquaintance at a Fortune-500 level company mentioned to me they are converting tons of currently salaried employees to hourly. These are white collar desk jobs at corporate HQ. I have to infer theres some sort of cost-cutting (wage theft?) motive behind this. Are these types of tactics becoming more prevalent in the white collar world?

My guess: so they can flexibly cut hours when they need to save a bit of costs in a way they can't with salaried employees.

Yep, how about a nice zero-hours contact coupled to a non-compete clause. Bring your own stool so you can sit in the lobby and wait to see if you'll be making any money today.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#57

The article isn't mainly about manager titles. The manager titles are just part of the way companies justify paying people a fixed salary (with no paid overtime) vs. paying people for the hours they work. They found that the incidence of fake-sounding manager titles spiked at the legal threshold of $455 a week — exactly the cutoff at which a company would be allowed to put workers on salary and sidestep OT payment la…

This is not quite true. To be exempt from overtime, the position has to pay that much and meet a set of requirements[0]. The inflated "manager" titles are not just to dupe the employee, they're an attempt to skirt Federal labor laws, which is why the article mentions companies losing lawsuits over this practice.

0: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17a-overtime

"However, Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees... Job titles do not determine exempt status. In order for an exemption to apply, an employee’s specific job duties and salary must meet all the requirements of the Department’s regulations."

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#58
post #38

Start sending manager and hr to jail for wage theft. If an employee falsified timesheets they can and have been convicted of theft. Why isn’t the reverse true? Jail is a huge motivating factor and why you don’t see wide spread accounting fraud in public companies.

No, you should quit instead.

Making offering not enough money to someone a criminal offense sounds like a dangerous ground to stand on.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#59

The article isn't mainly about manager titles. The manager titles are just part of the way companies justify paying people a fixed salary (with no paid overtime) vs. paying people for the hours they work. They found that the incidence of fake-sounding manager titles spiked at the legal threshold of $455 a week — exactly the cutoff at which a company would be allowed to put workers on salary and sidestep OT payment la…

I'll never understand how $11.38 an hour is manager money in any line of work.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#60
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My coworkers and I used to joke that at banks, even cleaning staff get VP titles.

Banks hand out VP titles like candy so that the customers think they're hot stuff and being treated well.

Can confirm: I made VP at Merrill Lynch at 28 I think. It was complete BS; my resume literally says "Vice President (I have no idea why we were all VPs either)"
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