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Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

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Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#51

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

brc wrote: post #46
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, "free market solutions" sounds nice until you notice that capitalism has no soul. It was only a few years ago that airlines bribed the FAA to skip inspections on their planes. Watch the frontline documentary on how airlines treat their pilots, barely giving them enough sleep, paying them terribly low wages, and putting non experienced pilots in senior positions, all to make a profit. Not to mention this: htt…

'Capitalism has no soul?' Really? And a socialist centrally-planned one-party state does? Sheesh. If you think corruption is only possible in a free market, I've got news for you. The free market is about the only hope you've got in a fight against corruption. Have a look at the world indices for corrupt societies - the worst offenders are the ones with the least freedom. I have no doubt at all that the TSA is alread…

I also have news for you. Surprise! I'm an American who dislikes socialism and loves to make money. So please stop assuming that anyone who isn't an extreme free market ass kisser is some socialist European who's against capitalism and competition. Please don't bring emotional baggage like that into conversations.

Unless you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years, Bankers, oil, auto, healthcare, insurance, airline, and countless other industries have consistently shown the public that they are willing to go to dangerous lengths to make cuts where ever they can to save money. Many times at the cost of HUMAN lives on a massive scale. The airline industry is ALREADY guilty of that with the way they treat, train, deploy pilots, and the way they've bribed the FAA to give them passing grades on safety inspections.

> The free market is about the only hope you've got in a fight against corruption

Freedom, opportunity, and the rule of law combined accomplish this. With only a free market you end up with anarchy, chaos, and disorder. Full and total free market capitalism sounds great in theory but doesn't work out in reality, the same way communism sounded like paradise in theory but never lived up to its promises when actually implemented. I think the problem is most people with this 'total free market all the way' attitude have NEVER lived anywhere but America, they don't know what totally free markets without rule of law or regulations are like (ie: Bulgaria after the fall of communism, Russia, etc...). They don't realize how bad things can get.

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#52

Post by mml »

Flow wrote: post #15

I'm not a native english speaker, the word "homeland" just seems like a weird choice to me. It feels too patriotic and even a bit fascistic. I can't recall any public discussion about the name when they were created, but then I'm not from the US so I might have missed those. Also, I'm associating the word with "fatherland", from the post-WW2-nazis-won-movie with Rutger Hauer :-/

I'm a native english speaker, and i always refer to it as "der Heimatsicherheitsdienst", has a more appropriate ring to it.

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#53

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

smokeyj wrote: post #44
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, "free market solutions" sounds nice until you notice that capitalism has no soul. It was only a few years ago that airlines bribed the FAA to skip inspections on their planes. Watch the frontline documentary on how airlines treat their pilots, barely giving them enough sleep, paying them terribly low wages, and putting non experienced pilots in senior positions, all to make a profit. Not to mention this: htt…

> I agree, "free market solutions" sounds nice until you notice that capitalism has no soul. I've got news for you. Economic models are inanimate. Sorry Che. > I don't like the TSA either but leaving it up to the airlines... It is up to the airlines. All the mechanical components on that capitalist plane were made by free enterprise. Now, why you trust a private corporation to manufacture jet engines and brakes, and…

> why you trust a private corporation to manufacture jet engines and brakes, and not checking for bombs is pretty irrational.

Naa, Irrational is when you trust airline companies that don't give their pilots 8 full hours of sleep and bribe officials into giving them passing safety inspections simply because you've been conditioned from a young age to assume that the free market would never do anything to jeopardize human lives in the name of profit. Now that is irrational.

I don't like the TSA either, I'm not trying to protect their wasteful security theatre, I'm just saying, leaving it up to airlines to somehow collaborate together to work on increasing safety isn't going to happen on its own.

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#54

Post by chc »

Revisor wrote: post #18

So the argument is that DHS is ineffective and wasteful? I thought the article would talk about how DHS is dangerous because it systematically dismantles your freedom in exchange for omnipresent surveillance and faux security. Then again, I'm only watching it from the outside.

The security wouldn't be "faux" if the department were efficient and effective.

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#55

Post by grannyg00se »

shingen wrote: post #23

I'm always fascinated when writers use the phrase "defeat terrorism." It would be equally stupid to say: defeat murder. It's the kind of jingoistic bull that led to the Patriot Act and Homeland Security. If someone told you the price for living in the most free society possible, is that 5,000 of your fellow citizens would die annually by terrorism, would that not be worth it? I would willingly risk my life, given the…

I sometimes wonder how many violent crazies are out randomly walking the streets. I'm impressed (and glad) that there isn't more random violence as you described. It would be very easy to stab someone, run off, and never be caught. But it just doesn't happen (well....extremely rarely anyway).

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#56

Post by dotBen »

bdunbar wrote: post #49
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"""The idea that anyone use airliners as improvised cruise missiles was so far into looney-tunes land that Tom Clancy used it as a plot device to catapult Jack Ryan into the presidency.""" And that, IMO, sums up what is wrong with how we handle airport security. We continually focus on fixing what happened last time instead of looking at what could happen. Of course, once you do that, you realize there are too many v…

Of course, once you do that, you realize there are too many variables to account for and that it is an intractable problem that needs to be approached differently. I don't see our government - or any current government being able to do that. It's like expecting Ford to suddenly decide they want to get into the software business, and stop making cars. It's just not going to happen: not in their DNA. Take 'a' proposal…

I don't see our government - or any current government being able to do that.

The Israeli's have a completely different approach to security - orientated around threat-intelligence and behavioral analysis.

It's like expecting Ford to suddenly decide they want to get into the software business

As it goes, they're about to open a software lab in Silicon Valley. I take the point you're really making here, but just saying :)

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#57

Post by smokeyj »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #53
smokeyj wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree, "free market solutions" sounds nice until you notice that capitalism has no soul. I've got news for you. Economic models are inanimate. Sorry Che. > I don't like the TSA either but leaving it up to the airlines... It is up to the airlines. All the mechanical components on that capitalist plane were made by free enterprise. Now, why you trust a private corporation to manufacture jet engines and brakes, and…

> why you trust a private corporation to manufacture jet engines and brakes, and not checking for bombs is pretty irrational. Naa, Irrational is when you trust airline companies that don't give their pilots 8 full hours of sleep and bribe officials into giving them passing safety inspections simply because you've been conditioned from a young age to assume that the free market would never do anything to jeopardize hu…

Why trust McDonalds to cook a burger? Because money. Crashing planes costs money. What, now you don't believe in profit motive? You admit it's a security theater, why defend it? Is TSA presence welcome only at airports, or how about in your home?

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#58

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

smokeyj wrote: post #57
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why you trust a private corporation to manufacture jet engines and brakes, and not checking for bombs is pretty irrational. Naa, Irrational is when you trust airline companies that don't give their pilots 8 full hours of sleep and bribe officials into giving them passing safety inspections simply because you've been conditioned from a young age to assume that the free market would never do anything to jeopardize hu…

Why trust McDonalds to cook a burger? Because money. Crashing planes costs money. What, now you don't believe in profit motive? You admit it's a security theater, why defend it? Is TSA presence welcome only at airports, or how about in your home?

Pssst. Read my previous comment. No, actually READ it.

Re: Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#60

Post by bdunbar »

dotBen wrote: post #56
bdunbar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, once you do that, you realize there are too many variables to account for and that it is an intractable problem that needs to be approached differently. I don't see our government - or any current government being able to do that. It's like expecting Ford to suddenly decide they want to get into the software business, and stop making cars. It's just not going to happen: not in their DNA. Take 'a' proposal…

I don't see our government - or any current government being able to do that. The Israeli's have a completely different approach to security - orientated around threat-intelligence and behavioral analysis. It's like expecting Ford to suddenly decide they want to get into the software business As it goes, they're about to open a software lab in Silicon Valley. I take the point you're really making here, but just sayin…

"I don't see our government - or any current government being able to do that."

The Israeli's have a completely different approach to security - orientated around threat-intelligence and behavioral analysis.

True. Israel might be the exception to the rule.

Of course, Israel has a much smaller area to control and a unique motivation.

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