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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#51
Heh. Funny story.

I'm an older (60) programmer. Have over 35 years' experience in software.

As a result, my approach tends to be fairly ... heterogenous ...

In today's tech scene, that makes me "counterculture." Judging from some of the reactions that I get, you'd think I was a punker at a royal wedding.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#53

Feels that way. Inside metro areas in the US there is very little difference of opinion on most issues. It was not always this way. People seems mostly content to consume content and ‘raise awareness’ online, and repeat.

You can't have non-standard opinions anymore. All opinions are now politics. If I say I like guns people instantly categorize me as Right-Wing-Nut or Alt-Right-Nut. If you express any kind of differing opinion publicly you will be associated with everything and anything the person hates.

There are differing opinions, but those need to be kept private for fear of retaliation.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#54
post #43

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

My understanding of counterculture is that it 'counters'. I.e. it inherently searches to change or influence the dominant culture. Your examples do show that we are (thankfully) not a monoculture. But they place themselves outside of our culture, instead trying to influence. A good example of counter culture is BLM, Extinction Rebellion or Occupy Wallstreet. Only thing: those are movements, not cultures. And they are…

I think this is a good point, and you don't deserve to be downvoted for it.

I think some of my examples do try to change wider society, but it is just more subtle and less overt/wholesale. I think there will be activists/evangelicals in any sub-culture.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#55
"back in my times", you had a bunch of different people with a bunch of different outlooks, wishes and views on the world... from anarchist punks to skinheads, peaceful "modern...ier" hippies, "the left", "the right", the what-would-now-be-called "libertarians", from people in schools, to adults at work, to people having kids at 20s, to adult swingers in their 60s... and all of them were represented as somehow 'special' but existing here.

Now it seems that we have a mainstream "culture", which doesnt actually exist, atleast noone identifies by it, then we have a mainstream "counterculture", which considers themselves as "alternative", but (atleast with younger people) is a majority, which occupies themselves by issues such as racism, sexism, trans-, and other -isms and more recently ecology.

It has gone so far, that you have "protests" for equal rights for some of those groups, or other 'mainstrea' issues where people actually in charge of laws are parading next to the "protesters"/"paraders" (in our, slovenian case, our prime minister at a protest for a healthcare reform).

And the rest? Those are invisible. Hippies and anti-war people? Nope.. now we have everyone cheering for more weapons and a longer war in ukraine. People complaining about housing prices... sure, a lot of them... people actually wanting more housing to be built.. a minority. Preppers? Just weirdos... even after quite a few events where prepping actually helped people.

Ok, i might be exaggerating a bit, but there really seems to be a lot of overlap between the current "counterculture" and what is being served from the people/groups/organizations that historically would have been seen as the "bad guys" by those counterculture groups. But again.. stuff like this is talked in "conspiracy circles", and again, shunned by the mainstream counterculture - eg https://i.redd.it/yj3vs93bi7691.jpg

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#56
post #41
post #2

The moment in which techies realize that they became the mainstream, and counterculture is elsewhere.

In my time hanging out on Mastodon, I feel like I’m seeing this play out. Many people who openly identify as “tech” people asking for new features, more or less complaining about the resistance to such new features and arguing that the cultural resistance doesn’t make sense. Now these tech people tend to also be new to mastodon. But they also seem pretty oblivious to the fact that they are the mainstream which many o…

But mastodon doesn't hate the mainstream, that's the difference, HN for example obviously isn't mainstream, and for one reason, the UI.

Its made on purpose to stop nontechnical people from joining

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#57
post #43

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

My understanding of counterculture is that it 'counters'. I.e. it inherently searches to change or influence the dominant culture. Your examples do show that we are (thankfully) not a monoculture. But they place themselves outside of our culture, instead trying to influence. A good example of counter culture is BLM, Extinction Rebellion or Occupy Wallstreet. Only thing: those are movements, not cultures. And they are…

>BLM

>LGBT

>counter culture

Endlessly supported by literally every news outlet, major tech company, big 5 sports league, F1000, university, and at least half of the political class. You’re not counter to any major institution, lmao. You’re not the resistance

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#58
post #13

Art today is definitely and absolutely still made with love and passion. Films like Everything Everywhere All At Once (or the recent episode of The Last Of Us) take a popular concept or franchise and make it their own. Fanfiction is still at crazy levels, thanks to websites like AO3. The book industry still has outstanding popular modern works which stand on their own and refuse to let genre define them. (Becky Chamb…

I do think Daniels are a great example of actual counterculture like this article is talking about. Swiss Army Man is weird as shit, and deeply affecting. EEAO has very much broken into the mainstream while preserving a lot of their style and sensibility. I think there will probably be a set of filmmakers in the future who saw their movies at a young age and thought "you can do that?"

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#59

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

I agree with this, I had a friend who lived in a caravan in a forest in the north of England with a bunch of hippies. They'd throw parties now and again and there were tons of them. There are loads of people doing van life for various reasons or something similar like bike packing or living on a homestead. These people are counter culture but you won't hear about them because most of them aren't hustling to become social media influencers - they'll do some honest work to earn some money and then spend the year living out of a van and rock climbing or whatever. It's mostly word of mouth or messaging groups with them. At the party I went to, all the music played was mp3s on the guy's hard drive because he didn't want to pay for Spotify because he thought it devalued music. If you're looking for the counter culture on the mainstream platforms then you're not going to find it. The counter culture is 100% there they just don't really care about influencing you. You have to choose to break free of the mainstream yourself, they're not going to try and do it for you anymore.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#60
post #18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more dark corners than ever... and they are as dark as it gets. You just don't want/know how to look for them and they are also as private as it gets.

There's a lot more fragmentation. The few common grounds, the most popular music, 'content creators', ideas and current events get amplified by news sites relying on ads, algorithms seeking maximum engagement. It's hard to promote a fringe issue in a wide content channel and there's a lack of everything in between fringe and mainstream.

Yeah sure, but saying that there are no "dark corners" is just naive. Counterculture in the 70s or 90s weren't massive movements at all. I don't see how it has changed looking at teens at the school of my children. It's mostly the problem of getting older can centering more with the mainstream yourself.
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