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The World is Full of Real People

jumpstartlab.com

51–60 of 69 posts

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#51
While he seems well meaning, his point is a bit silly and shows a lack of understanding as to how capitalism works.

>>Instead of measuring ourselves by the size of our Series A or our average profit per employee, let’s measure in lives changed.In an article that talks about the power of software to scale and effect entire populations of people, just how does he propose to "measure lives changed"? He doesn't, really. And how could he?

For example, if you rescue me from a burning building, you've certainly changed my life. But by how much? Do you now get credit for every accomplishment (or bad act) I do from that day forward? Or, if you're polite and let me get the cab we both hail, which allows me to get to my meeting on time, which allows me to close the sale and get the promotion... you've actually changed my life quite a bit, and you'll almost certainly never know about it.

The problem is, many more lives are changed by actions that are seemingly trivial, and often even unseen, than by those that are visibly heroic. Measurement then becomes impossible. Except we've figured out how to measure it. We use money.

If you're getting paid a princely some to design some system that end users will never see, you can be sure it's because the middleman thinks its valuable. He thinks he will be able to change people's lives. And, his belief will be confirmed when the end users pay him. In exchange for money, the end users get something that makes them better off. And that's the entire basis of capitalism.

So, while it's sexy to say that we have a responsibility to better the world at large because of our privilege, don't overlook the fact that by performing some service for pay, you are already bettering the world at large. By definition.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#52
I find it hard to believe that anyone here takes this crap seriously. If you're making good progress as a developer, it can be very taxing on the mind and body. Do I really need to point this out here??

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#53
“I worked harder than I had to. I gave up time with my kids, with my friends, to do what needed to be done.”

You know what one of the absolute best ways you can give back to the world?

- By spending time with your children and raising them to be good productive people so they can become contributors as well.

- Another way to give back to the world is to spend time with the people you care about which hopefully makes them happier as well.

Thinking that you are a martyr to build software for the greater good is somewhat laughable. In fact you may find that when you write your software what you really have done is put some people out of jobs - that seems to be one of the things software is really good at.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great link - I think that this can be used as a mild form of coercion. However, in this case I have to object more to the target than the method. Developer tools, as mentioned above, can certainly be used to improve the world by making it easier to develop - sure. My main gripe is with startups that make something that is a net-negative to society - which I'd argue Zynga, et al. are actually doing - just sucking mone…

By that token you could say that any passive form of entertainment is bad , from movies to sports. There's value in helping people to relax I guess.

Not really. Most movies and sports aren't carefully crafted to induce psychological addiction like many Zynga games are. Zynga will actually make games less fun and less relaxing if there's some set of people who will be driven to play more (even if they don't seem to be enjoying it much) because of the changes.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#55
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "This is completely different from saying that all developer tools are useless, which is what was said in the post." That isn't what was said nor what was implied. Someday we will stop pretending that what we do is "extremely useful". A developer tool is nice. It is neat. It is cool. It is a bulletpoint on your resume. It is a repo in the github. It buils your brand. It scratches your itch. It generates revenue. It…

...we need to compute the value at risk so we know how much capital to set aside in case of defaults. Why in the world would I need that ? Well since....I can go on and on... And if you went one step further, you'd have realized: "to reduce the risk of a bank failure and potentially saving thousands of jobs." But to pretend that what I'm doing is on the same plane of someone say vaccinating a kid with malaria in the…

Tremendously enjoyed your post, particularly the part about fucking around with gene assays. My wife is a physician, and sometimes I rile her by saying she is not helping real people because she is just a glorified hashmap. She does a lookup on the disease and returns a drug prescription. She says that's still better than fucking around with gene assays in a labcoat :) I'm completely familiar with your line of reasoning. Its just that the number of nodes needs to traverse from a styloot to a vaccine is significant. Its not zero. Most companies get around this by simply making large philanthropic donations from time to time. But you'll still agree that's not the same. Some of my classmates got their math & physics PhDs and then gave it all up and returned to India to feed the poor and work with the homeless. When I look at that and then look at the fact that I'm messing around with sobol sequences....it just irks me, that's all. I think that was the point of the article - dealing directly with the real world full of real people, and not via some long indirect causal mechanism.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great link - I think that this can be used as a mild form of coercion. However, in this case I have to object more to the target than the method. Developer tools, as mentioned above, can certainly be used to improve the world by making it easier to develop - sure. My main gripe is with startups that make something that is a net-negative to society - which I'd argue Zynga, et al. are actually doing - just sucking mone…

By that token you could say that any passive form of entertainment is bad , from movies to sports. There's value in helping people to relax I guess.

There's a difference between, say, pay-per-view football and Farmville, which has more in relation to slot machines than video games, movies, or TV shows.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#57
post #23

While the article is a nice and up-stirring read, I have to play devil's advocate here and ask: So how many lives have garbagemen changed in the way OP talks about? How much impact do workers in a steel mill have? What about other simple but very common (and very necessary) jobs like the building maintenance and cleaning? There are a lot of jobs out there that do not really directly advance society or change human li…

> "So how many lives have garbagemen changed in the way OP talks about? How much impact do workers in a steel mill have?"

I'd argue these people have a greater impact on society than a lot of hackers. These people are contributing directly. Take away the garbagemen (as the city of Toronto did, for a little while) and observe their impact (or rather, smell).

Compare to the innumerable hackers being employed to build, well, a whole lot of nothing, much of which won't ever even see the light of day. Between running out of cash, big-company reorgs, and just plain bad ideas, there's a lot of software being written that simply won't benefit anybody in any significant way.

Humanity is reaching an unprecedented amount of specialization - we used to live in societies where the purpose and contribution of a particular person to the whole is easily understood by everyone. The cooper makes barrels, that the vintner uses, so that we can all enjoy wine. The blacksmith makes tools for everyone else, etc etc. As we abstract and specialize, we need to maintain perspective and never lose track of what role we play in the grand scheme of things.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#58
post #23

While the article is a nice and up-stirring read, I have to play devil's advocate here and ask: So how many lives have garbagemen changed in the way OP talks about? How much impact do workers in a steel mill have? What about other simple but very common (and very necessary) jobs like the building maintenance and cleaning? There are a lot of jobs out there that do not really directly advance society or change human li…

> So how many lives have garbagemen changed in the way OP talks about?

Let's start with yours. Have you ever been in a city (e.g., New York) that was experiencing a sanitation worker strike? Garbage-men are easily some of the most important people in a modern society. The guys that empty my building's dumpster change the lives of hundreds of people every day. I can think of quite a few scientists and doctors who would love to have that level of impact.

Ditto for building maintenance and cleaning. At one point, my university decided that it could save money by cutting back on cleaning staff. Going forward, they would only come by to empty the trash and vacuum our offices once per month; the bathrooms would get cleaned every week or two, but other than that we were to be entirely on our own. We thought that this would be mildly inconvenient- it was worse. Oh, your office-mate had a banana with their lunch? That peel's gonna be in the trash can for a long time...

It turns out that the cleaning people had been changing our lives in numerous significant ways, every day, and when that change stopped happening, we sure as heck noticed. After far too many months, the administration decided that there were better places to cut back, and reinstated more regular cleaning services. And there was much rejoicing.

Your life is the way it is because a very large number of people are doing very unpleasant and/or difficult jobs, often for surprisingly small amounts of money. These people are to be honored and thanked at every opportunity, IMHO, and personally I try to as mindful as I can about the numerous and concrete ways that they change my life.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#59
post #22
post #13

Bullshit. The reason we don't have to worry about getting a job is because a computer programmer provide value and because we are good at it. So no we don't live a life of privilege. We worked for, and earned, our position.

I don't know the circumstances of your life, so maybe what you say is true, but at least in my case, I had huge advantages in reaching the point where I could provide said value: 1) I was born in a wealthy, stable country 2) to, even for said country, well-off parents 3) with a natural inclination to mathematics/logic 4) and access to computers/internet resources from a young age All of these seem like privilege to m…

I too was born into a stable country but my parents were far from rich or even well-off (they are now, but back then they had almost nothing).

I have no idea if they have a natural inclination to mathematics/logic -- and I doubt it would have matter, my brother studies chemistry one of the subjects I suck most at.

I didn't have access to a computer that early, at least not earlier than my classmates, but they spent all their time gaming, I spent (some) of my time with Delphi.

It is true that my life would have been different if I had been born in Rowanda, but I was no better of than those I grew up with.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#60
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that token you could say that any passive form of entertainment is bad , from movies to sports. There's value in helping people to relax I guess.

Not really. Most movies and sports aren't carefully crafted to induce psychological addiction like many Zynga games are. Zynga will actually make games less fun and less relaxing if there's some set of people who will be driven to play more (even if they don't seem to be enjoying it much) because of the changes.

Is Zynga different in this regard? They design their product so that people want to keep playing it , in the same way that a TV serial will end an episode on a cliffhanger in order to get you to watch the next one. Sports also encourage you to emotionally invest yourself in a particular team and create long term stories (leagues etc) so that you will continue spending money.
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