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Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

cnbc.com

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Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#51

Post by MrOwnPut »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #50
MrOwnPut wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the question. The answer to that is Mexico, the article is about Mexico judging it and "cracking down". The GP was clarifying the context. You refused to talk about the meat of their argument and instead opted to be pedantic about how the atmosphere diffuses.

No it doesn't matter. Where they do this is entirely beside the point. They can do it from international waters. Everyone is affected. Laws are arbitrary.

So laws are arbitrary and if something is arbitrary it doesn't matter, so if anyone does anything that is arbitrary (in your mind) it doesn't matter?

Let's back up for a second. What percentage would you say this experiment has in being correct?

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#52

Post by AlexAltea »

MrOwnPut wrote: post #46
marginalia_nu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] experiments with the atmosephere of the people of Mexico? Yeah I'm not sure that's how the atmosphere works. Surely this stuff would diffuse and affect the atmosphere globally.

Okay... who would judge those who want to do experiments to the global atmosphere from their country. (though as another user points out this would diffuse globally, but still be concentrated locally)

Every local action has global consequences.

Throwing a dead battery into a dump -> Battery acid gets dragged by the rain -> Polluting a river -> Flows polluting a sea -> Currents polluting all oceans.

Of course effects become smaller as scope grows, but still in many instances it's measurable, see Fukushima.

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#53

Post by paganel »

cgeier wrote: post #39

I believe (at least) research in solar geoengineering is urgently needed. No, this is not a long-term replacement for bringing down carbon emissions (not least, because carbon also acidifies our oceans), but if you look at the horrible effects climate change is already causing now, imagine how a world will with average temperature raised by 1.5° or 2.0° Celsius.

> but if you look at the horrible effects climate change is already causing now

What are those "horrible effects"? And how do you know the cure won't be worst than the supposed "horrible effects" it is meant to make disappear?

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#54

Post by marginalia_nu »

MrOwnPut wrote: post #51
marginalia_nu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't matter. Where they do this is entirely beside the point. They can do it from international waters. Everyone is affected. Laws are arbitrary.

So laws are arbitrary and if something is arbitrary it doesn't matter, so if anyone does anything that is arbitrary (in your mind) it doesn't matter? Let's back up for a second. What percentage would you say this experiment has in being correct?

Of course it matters.

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#55

Post by roomey »

sonofhans wrote: post #5

> The tiny startup Make Sunsets, which had been experimenting with releasing sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere to reflect sunlight in order to cool the earth. This is the mechanism in Neal Stephenson’s _Termination Shock_. The book’s plot depends on a future US government which is non-functional, thus no one can shut them down. These folks were planning to release 500g of sulfur dioxide — that’s completely insignifi…

I liked the book, he has a style, its a bit like Marmite I think.

The scary thing is so many of the predictions he makes in his books have come through!

I would recommend his books to people who like going off on tangents and want to spend a bit of time in characters and less in plot progression.

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#56

Post by MrOwnPut »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #54
MrOwnPut wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So laws are arbitrary and if something is arbitrary it doesn't matter, so if anyone does anything that is arbitrary (in your mind) it doesn't matter? Let's back up for a second. What percentage would you say this experiment has in being correct?

Of course it matters.

I updated my post with a few questions to clarify your stance.

The point of the question is to ask whether you think this has 100% chance of not causing issues.

The next step of course would then be to say, okay if it isn't 100% safe then do you support Mexico's right to say, "hey this could cause us or the world harm, stop it".

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#57

Post by MrOwnPut »

AlexAltea wrote: post #52
MrOwnPut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay... who would judge those who want to do experiments to the global atmosphere from their country. (though as another user points out this would diffuse globally, but still be concentrated locally)

Every local action has global consequences. Throwing a dead battery into a dump -> Battery acid gets dragged by the rain -> Polluting a river -> Flows polluting a sea -> Currents polluting all oceans. Of course effects become smaller as scope grows, but still in many instances it's measurable, see Fukushima.

Yes, you're missing my point to the GP, and he missed the point to the GGP.

It's in Mexico's right to stop experiments on the global atmosphere from their country.

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#58

Post by winReInstall »

The countries affected the most will pioneer this and the same mechanism that kept us from acting against the free market carbon death cult, will prevent measures against it. Then all it takes, is one slip up, one bad year, and all of humanity burns to ash in a fire storm.

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#59

Post by ovi256 »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #37
wolverine876 wrote: post #29

This isn't a Mexican company; the person behind it is. > Luke Iseman, a serial inventor and the former director of hardware at Y Combinator ... he started tinkering with releasing sulfur dioxide particles into the atmosphere with balloons, raised venture capital to fund the startup, and brought on co-founder Andrew Song to manage sales. Why did they choose Mexico? They couldn't get away with it in the US, so it's ok…

> [...] experiments with the atmosephere of the people of Mexico? Yeah I'm not sure that's how the atmosphere works. Surely this stuff would diffuse and affect the atmosphere globally.

Partially diffuse globally, partially come down in a downplume. The area under the downplume gets the maximum cooling effect.

Re: Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering

#60

Post by soco »

perihelions wrote: post #18
junofan wrote: post #3

> The opposition to these climatic manipulations is based on the fact that there are currently no international agreements that address or supervise solar geoengineering activities, which represent an economically advantageous way out for a minority and risky for the supposed remediation of climate change. > We agree that there are no alternative technologies that replace the need to reduce emissions to remediate cli…

It's a symptom of the Great Stagnation. There's a clear crisis with multiple plausible solutions, yet somehow all of humanity has made ~zero progress (on the geoengineering front) for decades. Never mind that the world's wealthier and more democratic than ever; or that information has never been more accessible to anyone who looks for it; or that technology and engineering are at their highest point in the history of…

You are right, and at the same time there are flip sides to all those points. More democratic than ever with some gaping holes, wealthier in places and for some, information just as accessible as misinformation... We're better on a 10.000 feet view, yet quite far from being "there".
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