Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges • Hacker News Board

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#51

Post by Forgeties79 » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 4:46 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #34

dTal wrote: post #5

The key to the success of Rick and Morty is that it's a very subversive show, sometimes to the point of being disturbing. Its embrace of comedic nihilism undermines classic sitcom tropes in much the way The Simpsons did when it was new. I always got the impression that this stemmed in no small part from Justin Roiland. It's not exactly a surprise that someone with so little regard for social convention turned out to…

> It's not exactly a surprise that someone with so little regard for social convention turned out to have untenable personal attributes, Did he, though? Accusations are not evidence. I think it is universally a mistake to read accusations by the criminal justice system uncritically, given what we know about their incentives.

>given what we know about their incentives.

Very curious to hear you unpack this little addition.

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#52

Post by notch656c » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 4:48 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #6

hobbitstan wrote: post #4

What happened to ‘innocent until proven guilty’? Are mere allegations enough to lose your job?

>What happened to ‘innocent until proven guilty’? We don't know what internal conversations looked like at Adult Swim. We don't know if, or of not, they are aware of anything else that may have happened that encouraged them to make this decision. I'm not saying anything did - the point is, we don't know their reasoning, but we should assume that the decision wasn't made lightly.

The accuser is unknown and the accused is a smart guy with counsel. Which means from the employer viewpoint they know some person accused him and they get a generic response from the lawyer about not being able to comment about an ongoing case.

The chance the employer has credible knowledge of guilt is extremely slim.

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#53

Post by jjulius » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 4:52 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #52

jjulius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What happened to ‘innocent until proven guilty’? We don't know what internal conversations looked like at Adult Swim. We don't know if, or of not, they are aware of anything else that may have happened that encouraged them to make this decision. I'm not saying anything did - the point is, we don't know their reasoning, but we should assume that the decision wasn't made lightly.

The accuser is unknown and the accused is a smart guy with counsel. Which means from the employer viewpoint they know some person accused him and they get a generic response from the lawyer about not being able to comment about an ongoing case. The chance the employer has credible knowledge of guilt is extremely slim.

My "We don't know if, or of not, they are aware of anything else," comment clearly suggests that the reasons for terminating him may not be limited to this court case specifically. It's been covered in many articles that this sort of behavior from him has been an open secret for a bit. I don't claim to know whether or not that's true, I'm simply saying that none of us know exactly why AS did this, whether or not it was only about the pending legal case or something more, or anything.

All we can do is assume they didn't make the decision lightly. Adult Swim is clearly a lot closer to this situation than any of us in this thread, and to pretend that any of us may know better than them in regards to this is just wild (and, really, you're doing the same thing you say they are - accusing them of something without proof).

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#54

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 4:56 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #43

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating law enforcement with regular life. Regular people and employers don't have the investigative authority of law enforcement. Law enforcement has a higher standard of proof because it comes with higher penalties. The rest of us who don't have the authority to conduct formal investigations have no choice but to make decisions based on the best knowledge we have and the benefit of our life experience. Th…

What on earth "best knowledge" could an employer know about domestic disputes? America has a deep deep well of benefits offered to people who claim domestic violence. They can get a TRO and have the children and gun rights taken from the person, they can get assistance from a battered women's shelter, they can get the upper hand in family court, they can get the house/custody because after the TRO the person is kicke…

> What on earth "best knowledge" could an employer know about domestic disputes?

They can know the impact on their brand and the terms of their contract’s morality clause.

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#55

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 4:56 PM UTC

spywaregorilla wrote: post #23

dTal wrote: post #5

The key to the success of Rick and Morty is that it's a very subversive show, sometimes to the point of being disturbing. Its embrace of comedic nihilism undermines classic sitcom tropes in much the way The Simpsons did when it was new. I always got the impression that this stemmed in no small part from Justin Roiland. It's not exactly a surprise that someone with so little regard for social convention turned out to…

I would say it's more a deconstruction of fiction, generally, rather than subversion of sitcoms. Most plots are decidedly non-sitcommy. I would also say Dan Harmon's previous work on Community is so filled to the brim with meta-analyses, parodies, homages, and self reflection that it's probably more him than Justin on the writing side. I'd ALSO say that I don't think Rick and Morty suggests Rick's behaviors or belief…

[deleted]

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#56

Post by notch656c » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 4:58 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #54

notch656c wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on earth "best knowledge" could an employer know about domestic disputes? America has a deep deep well of benefits offered to people who claim domestic violence. They can get a TRO and have the children and gun rights taken from the person, they can get assistance from a battered women's shelter, they can get the upper hand in family court, they can get the house/custody because after the TRO the person is kicke…

> What on earth "best knowledge" could an employer know about domestic disputes? They can know the impact on their brand and the terms of their contract’s morality clause.

Yes it ensures I will never watch the show again because I find their presumptuous morals repulsive. The aggregate effect I suppose will definitely have an effect on the brand. IMO they trashed their brand by sacking people before they were found guilty.

God bless the right to bankrupt yourself to mete out preliminary justice, though.

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#57

Post by armchairhacker » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #8

I don't think he's replaceable. It's like house of cards without Kevin Spacey. Actually even worse, one of the best episodes was an episode completely voiced by Justin, of an entire society, and he managed to play so many different personalities of the same character. Never seen this level of voice acting. It was pretty obvious that he's got issues. Had a scene where a writer literally confesses that he has bad tende…

Ok, this is a very good take even though I disagree.

The main issue is you can't have someone whose supposedly a sex offender, working with others and just ignore that he's a sex offender. Also, Rick and Morty is ultimately a piece of entertainment, and it's hard to be entertained if the guy writing jokes is allegedly gross and aggressive.

And the allegations are still just allegations, but from what I'm hearing they seem likely to be proven. If the charges are dropped I would argue Roiland should go back on the show and everyone should apologize. But even without the full picture he needs to at least temporarily step back because the toxic culture is still there; most people simply can't work with someone who they suspect what Roiland is accused of, and the trial is going to conclude and we will get a better picture eventually (and at least for the latter probably very soon).

In fact it looks like Rick and Morty is continuing and people are still fine with the earlier episodes fine even though much of the show is Roiland. That is applying nuance. And I agree that it won't be the same, but it's not going to be the same anyways.

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#58

Post by machina_ex_deus » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:01 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #27

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #8

I don't think he's replaceable. It's like house of cards without Kevin Spacey. Actually even worse, one of the best episodes was an episode completely voiced by Justin, of an entire society, and he managed to play so many different personalities of the same character. Never seen this level of voice acting. It was pretty obvious that he's got issues. Had a scene where a writer literally confesses that he has bad tende…

This isn't a punishment per se and I don't think it's particularly useful to try to roll it into more general complaints about cancel culture. People are complex yes, and everyone's life is composed of both good actions and bad ones, sure. But there are connections and pattern that emerge, specifically and for example domestic abuse is closely related to other forms of violence and abuse. This position is one of rela…

It's likely to make people around his position lose their job. If there were safety issues at work, like I said, I'm 100% in favor of kicking people out for the first transgression in work. If there wasn't, your argument is pointless. You're just ignoring reality for the convenience of your vengeful rightousness.

Stop acting like you get some sick virtue points by enacting vengeance on bad people. Two wrongs don't make it right.

How about a message that even sinful people can still do good? Or that they should channel their flaws to something good?

As if I care for roiland being fine. Your message is that it's fine because the only ones being hurt are everyone around him.

And this has everything to do with cancel culture. It's happening to Harry Potter over nothing right now. It's all over the place. People cancelling the constitution because "slave owners", owning slaves is definitely worse than domestic abuse.

It's all nonsense. Either an action is good or bad. Bad action on bad people doesn't make it good. It makes you bad as well. Everyone sins. You don't judge an action by whether it's helping a sinner because then no action will be good. You judge it only by itself.

This is a new form of religious atheism where the mob is responsible for justice instead of God. And in my opinion, society is better when justice is served by an intelligent entity rather than blind mob.

It shouldn't be the mob's job to stone him.

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#59

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #56

dragonwriter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth "best knowledge" could an employer know about domestic disputes? They can know the impact on their brand and the terms of their contract’s morality clause.

Yes it ensures I will never watch the show again because I find their presumptuous morals repulsive. The aggregate effect I suppose will definitely have an effect on the brand. IMO they trashed their brand by sacking people before they were found guilty. God bless the right to bankrupt yourself to mete out preliminary justice, though.

[deleted]

Re: Justin Roiland dropped from Rick and Morty after domestic abuse charges

#60

Post by jjulius » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #56

dragonwriter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth "best knowledge" could an employer know about domestic disputes? They can know the impact on their brand and the terms of their contract’s morality clause.

Yes it ensures I will never watch the show again because I find their presumptuous morals repulsive. The aggregate effect I suppose will definitely have an effect on the brand. IMO they trashed their brand by sacking people before they were found guilty. God bless the right to bankrupt yourself to mete out preliminary justice, though.

>IMO they trashed their brand by sacking people before they were found guilty.

To be fair, AS simply said they've ended their relationship with Roiland without saying why. Are you not also doing the same thing to AS here that you're accusing them of doing to Roiland (eg, making a proof-less accusation and terminating your relationship with the show because of it)?