Live data from Hacker News

Launch HN: Matano (YC W23) – Open-Source Security Lake Platform (SIEM) for AWS

news.ycombinator.com

51–55 of 55 posts

Re: Launch HN: Matano (YC W23) – Open-Source Security Lake Platform (SIEM) for AWS

#51

Interesting project. A few remarks though. - Doing real time data processing on tera/peta bytes involves a lot of IO, which is a significant part of of the cost in AWS. Things like Athena are simply not cheap to run at that scale. - With time series data, the emphasis is usually on querying recent data, not all of the data. You retain older data for auditing for some time. But this can essentially be cold storage. -…

Matano is completely serverless and stores all data in ZSTD compressed parquet files in dirt-cheap object storage, allowing you to bring your own analytics stack for queries on large amounts of data for things like investigations and threat hunts. Since we store data in a columnar format and plug in query engines like Snowflake that are optimized for analytical processing the queries on specific columns will run much…

You are not wrong, but I do think realtime and olap have been converging a bit for a while.

Stateless elasticsearch and opensearch are actually moving to a similar model as what Matano proposes. They both have made announcements for stateless versions of their mutual forks. Data at rest with that will live in s3 and there are no more clusters, just auto scaling ingest and query nodes that coordinate via s3 and that allow you to scale your writes and reads independently. Internal elasticearch and opensearch data formats are of course heavily optimized and compact as well. Recent versions have e.g. added some more compression options and sparse colunn data support.

But they are also optimized for good read performance. There's a tradeoff. If you write once and read rarely, you'd use more heavy compression. If you expect to query vast amounts of data regularly, you need something more optimal because it takes CPU overhead to de-compress.

For search and aggregations, you either have an index or you basically need to scan through the entirety of your data. Athena does that. It's not cheap. Lambda functions still have to run somewhere and receive data. They don't run locally to buckets. Ultimately you pay for compute, bandwidth, and memory. Storing data is cheap but using it is not. That's the whole premise of how AWS makes money.

Splunk and Elasticsearch are explicitly aimed at real-time use cases (dashboards, alerts, etc.), which is also what Matano seems to be targeting. But it can also deal with cold storage. Index life cycle management allows you to move data from hot, warm, and cold storage. Cold here means snapshot in S3 that can be restored on demand for querying. It also has rollovers and a few other mechanisms to save a bit on storage. So, it's not that black and white.

Computing close to where the data lives is a good way to scale. Having indexing and caching can cut down on query overhead. That's hard with lambdas, athena, and related technology. But those are more suited for one off queries where you don't care that it might take a few seconds/minutes/hours to run. Different use case.

Re: Launch HN: Matano (YC W23) – Open-Source Security Lake Platform (SIEM) for AWS

#52
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. Pull a dbt and get everybody hooked on your tool, then slap a SaaS platform ecosystem to the farthest right and watch the revenue flow.

Splunk is HEAVILY pushing their SaaS offering at the moment. They are the most obnoxious vendor we currently deal with. We are fine on prem, pay big $$ license fees, but not enough. They want that sweet SaaS revenue. I would be wary of pushing this, being a non-SaaS platform could be an advantage here.

I’m assuming the difference is: “big $$ license fees” for on-prem is $X a year, while “sweet saas revenue” is $A a year, $B per user, $C for compute, $D for storage, and $E for requests.

As a large company, what are the things you are more than happy to pay for with on-prem?

The reason I’m asking: this feels like the largest issue with cloud saas, which is one of the more popular implementations of open-core for B2B. Not saying Splunk is open-core, but it’s related to above/dbt cloud discussion.

Enterprise customers have the highest propensity to pay, but don’t need or want their cloud offering.

Mid-tier customers actually prefer a managed service by their cloud provider, aws/gcp/azure, because it strikes a balance between easy AND it works within their vpc/iam/devops. But this cuts off open-core companies main revenue, so they start making ELv2 licenses (elastic, airbyte, etc) which makes things harder on mid-tier.

Small customers are the ones who love saas the most, but have the least ability to pay, have the least need for powerful tools, and will probably grow out of being a small customer…

I’m curious if there are any companies which are: source code available, commercial license, allow you to fork/modify the source code, only offer on-prem (no cloud saas offering), want the mega-clouds to offer a managed service. BUT the commercial license requires any companies over 250 employees or $X revenue (docker desktop style) to pay a yearly license fee.

Re: Launch HN: Matano (YC W23) – Open-Source Security Lake Platform (SIEM) for AWS

#53
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long term, I believe Python (along with good ol' SQL for correlation) is the best language to model the kind of attacker behaviours companies are dealing with in the cloud and a lot of the difficulties with it are not inherent but around tooling. For example, in our cloud offering we plan on building abstractions that let you search for an IP or domain and get results with a click of a button as well the ability to a…

> get results with a click of a button as well the ability to automatically import Sigma rules and test Python logic directly with an instant feedback loop of a "low-code" workflow. Ok, so importing sigma rules is the easy part, it takes on average 2-3 hours of tuning a sigma imported rule to get it to where it is usable in a large environment where you have all sorts of false positives. The language in question shou…

[deleted]

Re: Launch HN: Matano (YC W23) – Open-Source Security Lake Platform (SIEM) for AWS

#54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> get results with a click of a button as well the ability to automatically import Sigma rules and test Python logic directly with an instant feedback loop of a "low-code" workflow. Ok, so importing sigma rules is the easy part, it takes on average 2-3 hours of tuning a sigma imported rule to get it to where it is usable in a large environment where you have all sorts of false positives. The language in question shou…

Thank you for typing up a long detailed response. I think a lot of the points and concerns you bring up are valid, and we are mostly agreed upon. In Matano however, we see Python as a viable component in security operations for narrowly tracking atomic signals while the language for writing detections and hunting threats will be SQL, which works perfectly well for use cases like the detection example you provided, al…

Thanks for the well thought out response. I hope Matano succeeds. I can't email you since my hn presence isn't public/social but I might be involved in evaluating your product some day soon and would chat and share thoughts with your folks then.

Re: Launch HN: Matano (YC W23) – Open-Source Security Lake Platform (SIEM) for AWS

#55
post #43
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the response. Chronice uses Yara-l and bigquery uses sql on steroids. Both are difficult to start working with them. I would want someone that has never even looked at python code to be able to query the data. Having a different query langauge than detection language is also a big problem (e.g.graylog). I will keep an open mind, I prefer python but it is not ideal for getting a wider audience (general IT s…

Do you have contact info to consult about this stuff in a few months? Building something adjacent and analyst usability is top of mind. I started my career doing detections (Snort / ClamAV) but have been out of the loop doing development for a while. A fresh perspective would be helpful.

Sorry,can't consult but if I see a post from you asking about this, I will be sure to respond/discuss that in detail.
Post reply on HN