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The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

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Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#51

Post by nemo44x »

markus_zhang wrote: post #26
a-r-t wrote: post #15

Houses were much simpler 50 years ago. The building codes have changed a lot since then and modern houses have added construction complexity with better waterproofing, air sealing, fire proofing, bracing, and more advanced mechanical systems.

However many modern homes use inferior material for the job comparing to the older homes in the same area. Probably to cut cost. I'm not sure if it was also the case for older homes built in the 50s/60s though.

It really depends by what you mean by inferior though. Yes, old homes (pre-WW2) were built using old growth wood that is rot and insect resistant. And they overbuilt the structures in many ways. Of course we have some selection bias as the old homes that were not built well (of which there are many) are simply not standing any longer. So the old homes we see today were probably built very well with the materials of the time.

Saying that, those materials (old growth wood) aren't around anymore. I think the industry went through a bad patch from the 1950s through the early 90s where A LOT of construction was bad and we didn't really know what we were doing with the sudden change to engineered materials. We didn't really understand vapor barriers because old homes didn't have them and didn't need them. They dried themselves out because they were so drafty and the old wood wouldn't rot easily. So when we moved to rapidly grown pine and engineered wood and insulation we didn't account for moisture very well and those homes have rot issues. Then we came up with water barriers but didn't account for water vapor and moisture would slowly get trapped over time and begin to rot the structures.

However, today we have an excellent understanding of what make for a quality dwelling. We understand insulation extremely well - where to put it, what type to use where, how to keep it dry), we understand vapor barriers very well and they are made to block liquid water but allow water vapor to pass outside, etc. Windows have excellent R-values today compared to old homes as well.

But yes, you can build cheap homes today that are crap. Code does reel you in a bit but I've heard of code in some areas being so bad it would allow you to sheath a house in cardboard essentially. Insane.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#52

Post by alexfromapex »

pirate787 wrote: post #39

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

Also the real wages have not increased much but all the expenses have, it's just demoralizing

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#53

Post by sokoloff »

rqtwteye wrote: post #31
a-r-t wrote: post #15

Houses were much simpler 50 years ago. The building codes have changed a lot since then and modern houses have added construction complexity with better waterproofing, air sealing, fire proofing, bracing, and more advanced mechanical systems.

Agreed. Although it's very surprising to me that the efficiencies of mass production haven't gone to housing. They are often still created by manual labor instead of assembling prefabricated modules. I think it should be possible to build panels that are well insulated and have all the needed wiring and everything else already built in.

Housing is a mass customization market more than a mass production one. Most people don’t want to live in a modern Levittown. They want some space, but they don’t want the exact same set choices in their house as 1000+ other people have made.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#55

Post by elil17 »

ryanSrich wrote: post #47
softfalcon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is why we're seeing some of the industry starting to experiment with pre-fabbed homes that are modular but can be constructed using the automation we see in car manufacturing. The weak link in creating ever more complex homes, with ever more stringent building codes, at faster rates, is to remove the "humans with nail guns and drills" from the construction process. At some point, us meat sacks are the…

> I believe this is why we're seeing some of the industry starting to experiment with pre-fabbed homes that are modular but can be constructed using the automation we see in car manufacturing. Are they doing anything different than what was available in a Sears catalog 50 years ago?

Yes, the manufacturing methods used in the factories are different today. For example, you can now have all the boards nailed together by robots. Other things are still the same. Electric wiring, for instance, is still a largely manual process.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#56

Post by jedberg »

They're measuring square feet completed per employee. Houses are twice as big now as they were 50 years ago. Anyone who's every done a remodel or new construction knows that 80% of the time is spent on the last 20% of finishing work, and with twice the square feet, that's twice as much finishing work.

Also, does this paper take into account increased regulations? Both the time spent complying with new building codes as well as the time spent waiting for inspectors?

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#57

Post by troupe »

rqtwteye wrote: post #31
a-r-t wrote: post #15

Houses were much simpler 50 years ago. The building codes have changed a lot since then and modern houses have added construction complexity with better waterproofing, air sealing, fire proofing, bracing, and more advanced mechanical systems.

Agreed. Although it's very surprising to me that the efficiencies of mass production haven't gone to housing. They are often still created by manual labor instead of assembling prefabricated modules. I think it should be possible to build panels that are well insulated and have all the needed wiring and everything else already built in.

Structural Integrated Panels (SIPs) and Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF) are two examples. SIPs are made from compressed foam with pressed wood on either side and are precut in the factory to fit together at the job site. ICFs are basically giant foam legos that you assemble together and then fill with concrete.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#58

Post by sokoloff »

alexfromapex wrote: post #52
pirate787 wrote: post #39

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

Also the real wages have not increased much but all the expenses have, it's just demoralizing

It cannot be the case that “all expenses” have grown faster than inflation (which is what real wages takes into account).

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#59

Post by jessaustin »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #22

That graph looks an awful lot like the one for GDP vs Wage Growth.

Good point! For those who haven't noticed the most important fact about the USA economy:

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/economic-synops...

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#60

Post by latchkey »

joezydeco wrote: post #42
matwood wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PEX is great. I highly recommend keeping some shark bites and spare pieces of PEX around, as it's easy to do repairs on your own if you have an issue.

I live in an area where the plumbing is soldered copper and the wiring is all in steel conduit. PEX, ProPress, Sharkbites, Romex... it's all just a little scary to me.

I seriously can't recommend this guy enough for general repair/building work...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnorhjQR4zJkT7AVNhu395Q/vid...

Friendly, super knowledgable, takes the fear out of the DIY.

For electrical, I do a lot myself, but when it came to running a 50amp line + breaker panel inside my place (which also required outdoor ladder work) to replace the steel conduit indoors, I just hired a professional even though it was very expensive.

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