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What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#51

Post by bell-cot »

greggsy wrote: post #37
bell-cot wrote: post #10

Sadly, the moral of the story seems to be that the 1943 FBI had loads of zealous (performative?) plods on staff, but ~zero law enforcement professionals. In '43, the US had plenty of highly competent professional cryptographers, who were quite experienced with current Japanese, German, Italian, British, etc. codes. Before an entire local FBI office spent even a day on this case (let alone 6 weeks), maybe they should…

It’s important not to fall into the trap of hindsight. At the time, they very well thought it was important, but it of course seems silly once you hear the full story.

Note my edit, above. If they suspected it really was important, then they should have passed it up to the code-breakers ASAP.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#52

Post by saalweachter »

xdfgh1112 wrote: post #7
Reubend wrote: post #4

> I learned by chance that putting certain provocative information on a security clearance form can greatly speed up the clearance process. But that is another story. Did he ever write about what that trick is?

https://yarchive.net/risks/mongrel.html Other poster posted the same link but is getting downvoted so might get overlooked.

> I will probably never know.

I wonder if the author got his answer through modern DNA ancestry.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#53

Post by Agentlien »

mcv wrote: post #29

I'm so that guy. Not for security clearance, but medical questionaires. I always fill them in with total honesty, listing the most minor and irrelevant details if they fit the question. My wife keeps telling me not to fill that stuff in, and she's quite the opposite, giving the preferred answer everywhere, even when I think: "but shouldn't you mention that thing?" Of the two of us, she's the one who has tons of exper…

Sometimes you just can't win, though.

I used to work for a Swedish company making training simulations for surgeons. There are of course special rules regarding customs declarations of medical equipment.

Our salespeople often complained that when entering the U.S. it was basically a coin toss if the customs agent would be angry with them for declaring our simulator as "medical equipment" and wasting their time, or get angry at them for trying to sneak this medical equipment through customs without declaring it.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#54

Post by adastra22 »

mauriciolange wrote: post #43
bell-cot wrote: post #10

Sadly, the moral of the story seems to be that the 1943 FBI had loads of zealous (performative?) plods on staff, but ~zero law enforcement professionals. In '43, the US had plenty of highly competent professional cryptographers, who were quite experienced with current Japanese, German, Italian, British, etc. codes. Before an entire local FBI office spent even a day on this case (let alone 6 weeks), maybe they should…

This was a code key, not a codified message, so there was nothing to break, but only the indication that messages could have been exchanged using this key.

Which is gold material for the code breakers. The people trying to decrypt messages having to do with the ongoing war at the time.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#55

Post by quietbritishjim »

mauriciolange wrote: post #43
bell-cot wrote: post #10

Sadly, the moral of the story seems to be that the 1943 FBI had loads of zealous (performative?) plods on staff, but ~zero law enforcement professionals. In '43, the US had plenty of highly competent professional cryptographers, who were quite experienced with current Japanese, German, Italian, British, etc. codes. Before an entire local FBI office spent even a day on this case (let alone 6 weeks), maybe they should…

This was a code key, not a codified message, so there was nothing to break, but only the indication that messages could have been exchanged using this key.

Yes but if the codebreakers also came across a (real!) coded message, wouldn't they want to have the key already to hand so that it can be decrypted?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#56

Post by prmoustache »

olsgaarddk wrote: post #30
mcv wrote: post #29

I'm so that guy. Not for security clearance, but medical questionaires. I always fill them in with total honesty, listing the most minor and irrelevant details if they fit the question. My wife keeps telling me not to fill that stuff in, and she's quite the opposite, giving the preferred answer everywhere, even when I think: "but shouldn't you mention that thing?" Of the two of us, she's the one who has tons of exper…

Last time I was at the doctor, I answered “not that I know of” when asked if I had any allergies. Afterwards at the pharmacy, it turns out my prescription included a box of antihistamine.

What a weird doctor you have.

You don't discuss about your actual medical condition and he doesn't tell you why he prescribe each drug and for which purpose?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#57

Post by chadd »

saalweachter wrote: post #47
mcv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very obscure allergy to some specific compounds in some medication. It gives me a rash, nothing serious. I'm always very diligent in mentioning what little I still remember about that allergy.

I've spent thirty years telling doctors I'm allergic to amoxicillin; I'm not sure if I am, but that's how my parents started every doctor visit when I was small so I carry on the tradition. I think I might have thrown up after taking it as a small child, but I have no recollection myself.

it's common to have childhood allergies to penicillin-class drugs which go away in adulthood; i had to have major surgery (as an adult) but had a similar childhood reaction. I was advised to do an allergy 'challenge test'. It turned out the allergy was either never really there or had gone away, which gives doctors more options when antibiotics are needed. It might be worth looking into.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#58

Post by ckastner »

FpUser wrote: post #26
ckastner wrote: post #18

It's a great story, but didn't the author confess to a felony by publishing it? He lied on an official document, even if directed to do so by the person across him. I know this is pedantic, but that's exactly what I would expect from a security clearance vetting process.

Or maybe get a life and go catch actual spies. When the law makes innocent suffer fuck it.

Determining whether you're dealing with an actual spy or an innocent person is the entire point of such investigations.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#59

Post by gnfargbl »

ckastner wrote: post #49
jemfinch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't investigated by the FBI. The FBI was investigating a hypothetical Japanese spy; since he wasn't a Japanese spy, any follow-up that led to him was merely incidental. If the FBI investigates a spy seen driving a silver Honda Civic with license plate ABC-1234, and looks into an unrelated civilian who drives a silver Honda Civic with license plate ADC-1234 in case their witness misremembered the license place,…

This isn't a case of a mistaken identity, the FBI found exactly the person they were looking for. It just turned out that said person wasn't a threat, after all. I'd say determining that is exactly the point of an investigation. That fact that it ended well doesn't change the fact that the process happened, and was triggered by said person.

It is true that the FBI found the person they were looking for, and that person was the terminus of their investigation. It is not true that the article author was investigated by the FBI. He was nothing more than a MacGuffin in the overall plot.

In this specific case, the security officer made the correct decision in having him leave out this detail from the clearance form. Makes for a good story, though.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#60

Post by weberer »

olsgaarddk wrote: post #30
mcv wrote: post #29

I'm so that guy. Not for security clearance, but medical questionaires. I always fill them in with total honesty, listing the most minor and irrelevant details if they fit the question. My wife keeps telling me not to fill that stuff in, and she's quite the opposite, giving the preferred answer everywhere, even when I think: "but shouldn't you mention that thing?" Of the two of us, she's the one who has tons of exper…

Last time I was at the doctor, I answered “not that I know of” when asked if I had any allergies. Afterwards at the pharmacy, it turns out my prescription included a box of antihistamine.

Next time just ask for an allergy test. These days they just draw a bit of blood and send you the results in a few days. Then its on your records for good.
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