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The art and science of spending money

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51–60 of 140 posts

Re: The art and science of spending money

#51

> Frugality inertia: a lifetime of good savings habits can’t be transitioned to a spending phase. Coming from a poor family and knowing the hard way the issues of not having money I've been obsessed with saving money since I got my first paycheck 8 years ago and I always thought "at the point I would earn current salary + x I will start enjoying life more and stop worrying about money" but that never happened. 8 year…

Ramit Sethi has good advice on learning to spend, geared towards those that "made it" but can't escape past habits

Re: The art and science of spending money

#52

I have two rules to guide me that can be summed up to maximizing the joy of spending: It's not what you have, it's what you do with what you have that matters. Going with a car example, spending significant income for a nice car that you use for normal transportation like commuting and shopping will bring little joy. On the other hand if you are into motor sports, regularly tour on or off-road, like to restore classi…

> Would I rather change my car for a new one or take 10 one week trips abroad? I'll take the later so I decide against the new car even though that will not be exactly what I spend the money for.

Wait till you experience one with a heated steering wheel. That might change your mind, especially if you live in a colder climate.

Re: The art and science of spending money

#53
post #45

Very interesting article. Following the articles logic, you should be able to deduce a country's Social mobility based on the number of exotic items (such as supercars) you see in public. Furthermore, it becomes apparent that Europe has lower Social mobility than the United States. You will seldom see exotic sports car in the streets in Western Europe because most of the wealth are from well established institutions…

Western Europe has generally higher social mobility by most metrics than the US (mobility between income cohorts, education level vs parents, etc). The US probably does have more people becoming really, _really_ rich, though, and also has slightly different social norms around money and the showing-off thereof.

(That said, this is mostly differences at the margins. The mean price of a new car isn't much different between the US and the wealthier EU countries, say; the upper-middle-class are happy enough to buy cars that cost more than an average annual household income in both places. It's where you start getting past low six figures that people start getting squeamish)

Re: The art and science of spending money

#54

> Frugality inertia: a lifetime of good savings habits can’t be transitioned to a spending phase I think a lot of financial planners start from a base assumption that their clients will be happiest if they spend their accumulated wealth. That’s not true in my case (at least as far as I can self-analyze). Whatever we don’t spend isn’t lost potential for us, but rather is future potential for our kids. Taking only the…

>Whatever we don’t spend isn’t lost potential for us, but rather is future potential for our kids

That's extremely lazy. If your children follow the same pattern then no one will ever benefit. It was all for nothing.

So your kids will spend the savings but when will they spend those savings? After your death when they are in their 40s and 50s and long past the point where they need your help or while they are still young and you spend time with them?

Re: The art and science of spending money

#55
post #17

Two money aspects that I find useful, which weren't mentioned in the article: Price per use: if I buy X, how much/often will I use it vs. it's price Time sacrifice: considering my current hourly wage, how many hours of my life do I need to spend in exchange for this item?

The time sacrifice thing doesn't work in practice because the division of labor has a very big expense called taxes.

If you do things yourself then you avoid the tax burden. But if you decide to let someone else do the work you have to pay VAT and income tax.

Re: The art and science of spending money

#56
I must be in the minority. I grew up poor (collected pop cans from my local Sun office as an office cleaner and sold them for deposits), so its scar will always be with me.

But when I was younger, someone once said 'money is not the thing; money is the thing you use to get to the thing.'

So now I can switch between being thrifty or being 'careless', depending what I really desire- and this requires constant self-reflection, a constant self-question of would spending this money do anything for my goals (which should include helping others.)

In other word, like that Japanese cleaner lady, I ask myself would spending this bring me joy?

Re: The art and science of spending money

#57

The goal of saving is to have a lifestyle that you can MAINTAIN during retirement. - if you save 60% of your income, your lifestyle will be severely damaged and you won't become a spender all of a sudden the day after retirement. - If you save 5% of your income, then you won't be able to lower your lifestyle once you retire. Saving 15/20% of income isn't a magic number. But it's something that doesn't damage your lif…

There can be many goals for saving. It is easy to imagine parents that want to save as much as possible for their kids, for example.

Why would a kid need "saving as much as possible", did you ask them? What if they need the money before your death?

Re: The art and science of spending money

#58
My wife and I have accumulated a few overall principles about money over the years. What's interesting is how they have played out over time. Here are a few of them:

1. Money and debt are amoral financial tools. It's important to be smart about how we use these tools, but neither money nor debt is evil or all that valuable in the moral sense. This is especially important for us, because our conservative background has pretty much taught us from childhood that money == good and debt == bad.

2. Treat money like it belongs to someone else (in our case, as Christians, we acknowledge it, like everything, belongs to God, and we try to spend in a way that honors the responsibility he's given us).

3. Always pay off the credit card at the end of the month. When we got married, I got my first credit card and set the automatic payment to 100%. I only made $40k/year back then, but we have the same rule today, even though our spending power is 5x what it was.

4. Retirement savings. This one's obvious, but most couples can save a combined $13k per year in Roth accounts that can grow tax free for your lifetime. Maximizing this as early as possible in life is extremely important. As your income grows, your next goal is to maximize other vehicles like a 401k. Don't make your kids take care of you financially later in life.

5. Your kids won't be around forever. This doesn't sound like a financial principle until you start thinking about all the trade-offs having kids presents you with. For instance, we're more likely at this point (with 4 kids 6-13 years old) to put in a pool than we are to redo our kitchen. And we're more likely to take on some manageable debt in order to make improvements to our home or give our kids experiences that normally we would take the time to save up for.

Edit: forgot an important one

6. Spend more to buy things that last. Especially if you live in a wet climate. I live in Florida, where everything rusts and rots. 4-5 years ago, instead of buying another gas grill that'll just rust in a year, I bought a Kamado-style grill. It's still in perfect shape, and I use it more often as a result. When we bought patio furniture in 2020, we spent extra to avoid natural wood, which takes regular upkeep and, again, eventually rots anyway. It's still in perfect shape. When we replaced our rotting exterior doors/doorframes, we went with an industrial PVC material. I'll never have to worry about any of those things again.

Re: The art and science of spending money

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy for you. I hope to one day be able to honestly express “this is a good life, and I am experiencing things that were unfathomable when I was younger”. Care to share any details about how you did it in the context of a website dedicated to an older root of the word hacker than the more modern meaning?

The only reliable way of creating a huge fortune from scratch is to start a business. Many failures for me before it worked out.

So it isn't so reliable after all, according to your own testimony.
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