Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA • Hacker News Board

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#51

Post by snowwrestler » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:20 AM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #49

waqf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(devil's advocate) Your analogy is bad because "rounding up" is something one Does Not Do Without Due Process, whereas deleting an intertube site is not. (America managed for 200 years without any intertubes at all, you know, so it can't be all that important.)

A closer analogy is shutting down a printing press. America survived for 100 years before offset printing existed, so why not craft a law that excludes newspapers that use offset printing presses from first amendment protections?

The hyperbole around this law is getting irritating. Congress can't restrict First Amendment rights online any more easily than they can in print; laws cannot override the Constitution.

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#52

Post by sukuriant » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:30 AM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #24

kvgr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thoughts here :) and I am really happy that he is fighting for something real. I hope this time it will work!

was that a reference to manbearpig, or you don't think global warming is real?

Why does it matter, given the conversation.

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#53

Post by sukuriant » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:38 AM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #34

igorgue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no sense of humor here, guys! Downvote me here too! :-)

Pro tip: Humor is better-appreciated when it's FUNNY. :)

That's what she said :(

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#54

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:41 AM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #33

weaksauce wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? with SOPA you are enabling the copyright holders to go after apple's entire distribution center because someone cloned tetris and the owners of tetris came after apple with an infringment claim. This takes down all of distribution not just the clone. Since the distribution is over the internet and name resolution is based on dns this is actually possible. unless apple changes it to be static IP addresses it woul…

The thing with this is I just can't imagine the App store getting shut down because of this, or even youtube. There would be a serious uproar if that happened, people wouldn't stand for it. More likely is that some pirate sites will die and others will just go deeper underground. The people who are likely to be scared into shutting up shop all together will be smaller distributors of independent or amateur content. I…

The people who are likely to be scared into shutting up shop all together will be smaller distributors of independent or amateur content.

I would be saddened if the Internet became like the high street circa 1996 with a few large companies and producers setting the agenda for what we will watch and listen to.

That's exactly what we have to worry about, and exactly what old-school content providers have been fighting for ever since the Internet was created.

We use YouTube and the App Store as examples that appeal to the common person's awareness of the Internet, but we have to be far more concerned about the effects of SOPA/PIPA/etc. on the next YouTube.

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#55

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:43 AM UTC

algorithms wrote: post #20

amichail wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of the motivation, one might expect that iOS developers for example would make more money with SOPA.

could you elaborate on that thought a bit?

OT/Meta: comments that consist solely of "Could you elaborate" or "Please explain" without quoting from and referring to the original idea may be perceived as a lazy way of pretending to engage in the conversation, while placing the burden of actual communication entirely on the other party.

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#56

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:46 AM UTC

davidcuddeback wrote: post #42

weaksauce wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two scenarios that I can see: Without SOPA: Let's pretend that there is an innovative site that is going to be made in a few years that allows people to submit things to it and sell. This site gives some creative person a chance to make a full living. (this is actually happening now in many places) With SOPA: Two options: Site either does not get created at all because of fear of creating sites that might cross SOPA…

I think you're missing one. With SOPA, the website could still get built and maybe it never gets taken down for whatever reason [1]. I'm against SOPA too, but I think the two options you provided in the scenario with SOPA present a false dichotomy. I don't want to see SOPA pass, but fallacies won't sway the opinions of intelligent people. [1] Could be that the website owner polices their site effectively, or maybe th…

The point is, there are other possible outcomes.

None of which are good. Either the site is taken down, an onerous burden is placed on the site owner to do the copyright owners' job of policing content, or yet another arbitrarily enforced law sits on the books, waiting for some enterprising media exec or prosecutor to contort it around their case of the day.

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#57

Post by JeremyBanks » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:54 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #51

InclinedPlane wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A closer analogy is shutting down a printing press. America survived for 100 years before offset printing existed, so why not craft a law that excludes newspapers that use offset printing presses from first amendment protections?

The hyperbole around this law is getting irritating. Congress can't restrict First Amendment rights online any more easily than they can in print; laws cannot override the Constitution.

The constitution and other agreements on human/civil rights are frequently violated by the American government. Why do you expect this case to be any different?

(My favourite example is that America hasn't had a constitutionally-authorized war since World War II. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_Unit...)

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#58

Post by crikli » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 1:57 AM UTC

crgt wrote: post #48

waqf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(devil's advocate) Your analogy is bad because "rounding up" is something one Does Not Do Without Due Process, whereas deleting an intertube site is not. (America managed for 200 years without any intertubes at all, you know, so it can't be all that important.)

Perhaps take a look at the NDAA? Due process was just signed away. http://boingboing.net/2012/01/03/missing-portion-of-obama-ho...

The lack of outrage over this is...saddening.

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#59

Post by jjoe » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 2:13 AM UTC

He's to be commended for making SOPA's "unintended" consequences easy to understand for the masses. He essentially came up with the best argument as to why SOPA should not be passed (i.e. internet censorship in Tunis and Egypt at the height of the Arab Spring).

Re: Al Gore Comes Out Against SOPA/PIPA

#60

Post by zacharycohn » Sat, Jan 07, 2012, 2:23 AM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #33

weaksauce wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? with SOPA you are enabling the copyright holders to go after apple's entire distribution center because someone cloned tetris and the owners of tetris came after apple with an infringment claim. This takes down all of distribution not just the clone. Since the distribution is over the internet and name resolution is based on dns this is actually possible. unless apple changes it to be static IP addresses it woul…

The thing with this is I just can't imagine the App store getting shut down because of this, or even youtube. There would be a serious uproar if that happened, people wouldn't stand for it. More likely is that some pirate sites will die and others will just go deeper underground. The people who are likely to be scared into shutting up shop all together will be smaller distributors of independent or amateur content. I…

Okay, maybe they wouldn't take down Youtube. But the chances of someone uploading a copyrighted video to Justin.tv? Or a thousand other small video hosting sites? Very high.

Right now, someone files a notice, and Justin.tv says "oh crap! Lets take that down." and they do and everyone is happy.

In the future, someone might file a notice, and then Justin Kan shows up at work one day and finds that his entire business has been taken offline by the government.