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SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

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Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realize DNSBL is voluntary and SOPA would mandate/force, but I don't see how the effects are different. For a DNS server Bam, stop right there. DNS servers do not use DNSBL. There's your answer. DNSBL is used in circumstances like this: You're connecting to an IRC server. It does some tests to make sure you're not spoofing your host, like using reverse DNS (PTR records). IRC servers will also try to prevent spamm…

This is a fantastic response and I'm glad you took the time to write it. I'm sorry I misinterpreted DNSBL, I guess I read "either as a zone file that can be used by DNS server software" and assumed they meant the main DNS servers really do use them. Final question for you: Do you believe that if SOPA passes, it would really have drastic effects to the internet functionally? So, besides censorship and liability, do yo…

> Do you believe that if SOPA passes, it would really have drastic effects to the internet functionally?

Yes. Things would have to shift around the compensate, but the real problem begins when SOPA justifies similar legislation in other countries, especially ones being bound by trade agreements which call for this type of stuff.

In the U.S. they claim "oh, but we're just going to target people who violate the law. You know, copyright infringement." Even if that were true, other countries have a long history of applying their laws, which usually suck and go much further to stifle speech.

SOPA legitimizes this method of blacklisting, thus leading to a balkanization of the naming system. People begin to move away from the cache servers, causing slowdowns in resolution and CDNs. Once this proves ineffective, the U.S. will want to censor any DNS server that resolves an IP to something they don't want. Then we have deep packet inspection.

It really will not end unless we force it to end. SOPA takes a drastic step that even the DMCA didn't do. DMCA targeted activities under U.S. jurisdiction. The next chapter in the global censorship game is the attack on websites outside jurisdiction, which is not feasible without immense privacy encroachments.

I don't want to see us going down that path. We need to go the complete opposite direction when it comes to copyright. SOPA also places way too much of a legal and logistical burden on companies within the U.S., which is going to lead a lot of people toward countries with progressive outlooks on copyright, like in some places in Europe.

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then please point out the flaw(s) in my logic, we're all adults here right?

You're justifying it as not having too much of a "splash" because it targets foreign websites which you claim are primarily for copyright infringement. That's just not true at all. Most foreign websites are perfectly legitimate.

Ah I see how you misinterpreted me there: I meant a certain subset of foreign sites that were not legitimate.

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have great points but I don't believe they sufficiently support the doomsday freak-out I'm witnessing. DNS blacklisting is already happening in the US and all over the world (ICE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_En... and DNSBL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL ). I admit we are already on a slippery slope here with blacklisting, but I think most of your DNS comments could be a…

Couldn't be more wrong, sorry. The ICE seizures are perfectly fine because they target the delegation chain directly -- they are actually seizing the domain from a registrar or TLD authority with control over it within the chain. They are not a DNS blacklist and it does not interfere with caching servers. SOPA attempts to target names which are not within U.S. jurisdiction by asking caching servers maintained by ISPs…

The ICE seizures are perfectly fine...

I wouldn't say perfectly fine... They're less objectionable than SOPA because they have some semblance of a claim to legality under current law, but I hardly think they're a model of how the Internet should be policed (or that the Internet as a whole even needs policing). Many, many subdomains were seized by ICE that were completely innocent, and there was still a lack of due process (see the rojadirecta.com case, where a site that is legal in its home country had its domain taken, then returned without explanation a year later).

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to your points 2 or 3, but section 103 (which governs ad and payment processors) applies to domestic sites as well. If I've understood correctly, Youtube couldn't be blocked, but could be forbidden to host advertisements - which would kill it just as surely.

Well, it is definitely ambiguous, but it looks like section 103 does apply to domestic sites. However , they do focus on a particular class of sites: U.S.-directed site is primarily designed or operated for the purpose of, has only limited purpose or use other than, or is marketed by its operator or another acting in concert with that operator for use in, offering goods or services in a manner that engages in, enable…

...is marketed by...another acting in concert with that operator...

Without a contrary definition of "in concert," I could see that as covering any site with an affiliate program. For example, Amazon provides automated revenue sharing for inbound affiliate links. Let's say some third-party affiliate site markets Amazon as an ideal venue for "engag[ing] in, enabl[ing], or facilitat[ing], violation of [...some existing laws...]". Under the wording of what you just posted, Amazon would now be subject to DNS blacklisting and termination of payment processing.

"They'd never shut down Amazon," you say? Well, so what? They would shut down some smaller Amazon-like site. History has shown that the RIAA and MPAA (and/or their members) will do whatever they can get away with, and sometimes more (see Megaupload+Universal). AIUI, SOPA gives legal force to mere accusations coming from a major copyright holder.

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if Dropbox were a non-US company. That section you just argued could be easily misused to block that site. After all, you can share your files on as many computers as you want. Clearly it will all be music and movies. People that want Dropbox taken down only need one or ten examples. In a popular enough website, it would be easy to find some example people that have broken the ToS and uploaded copyrighted con…

I realize that laws can be twisted by clever lawyers but I still think its quite a stretch to claim that a Dropbox-like site could be said to have its primary purpose be infringing copyrights. For one thing, those files aren't publicly available by default. If they are publicly available, then the Dropbox team is probably already monitoring those files. If they are not monitoring those files then (this part is contro…

But, should the entire website be taken out of a dns just because one/ten people using the website are using it in an illegal way? That's what SOPA will do, and that's why it's bad.

Due process is good :)

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#56
post #8

I was talking to my father over the holidays about SOPA. He's an avid FOX news and CNN viewer. He had no idea what I was talking about. After our conversation he took it upon himself to search Google on the subject to educate himself on it. I'm from Canada so all I can do is keep an eye on this at the moment, but it goes to show you that everyone in the US need to spread the word.

your dad would be the first canadian I've heard of that is an avid FOX news fan. how can you even catch fox news up here? (I dont have cable, but when I did I dont think we had the news…)

Hypothetically, if you're close enough to the border, you can pay for e.g. a DISH Network subscription at a US address and bring the equipment across. I'm neither Canadian nor a border patrol officer, so I can't say how common or effective this strategy would be.

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#57

I want to call my representatives but I feel they will give me a hard time and use that politician improve skill to make it seem like I don't know what I am talking about. Give me good ideas on what to say when I don't support SOPA and PIPA that they can't fight back. Ideas why I don't like it while playing devil's advocate +policing my web site to a point I can't manage it. -well your website can't be controlled and…

I agree with you, it's hard to explain. Here's a sketch of how to frame the discussion, just for fun:

WHAT WILL SOPA DO TO THE INTERNET?

The Internet is the Goose That Lays the Golden Eggs, and this bill wants to let Hollywood perform surgery on it. Every tech expert and internet company agree that this would be a drastic, disruptive shift. I say, the Internet's been working pretty good for [country] so far. Don't break it by putting more paperwork and gatekeepers in there.

HOW, IN LAYMAN'S TERMS, IS SOPA HARMFUL?

Imagine you're an entrepreneur. Your small business is disruptive and different and successful.

But your big, slow, powerful competitors get worried, and suddenly, your shop's lights and water are turned off. Crazier still, your shop is physically relocated back away from the street, with no signs and no way for people to find you. Your bank has closed your account and frozen your funds.

This is all because of a letter, not a court order. Your providers and suppliers and utilities, they got a letter that claims that you're infringing on other company's trade secrets. And the law says that they're guaranteed legal immunity, only if they stop doing business with you.

Most people would say that could never happen in this country. It'd be crazy!

But every reputable Internet expert, and every Internet company agree that this is what SOPA will do to the Internet.

SOPA provides incentives to service providers to shut down businesses based on unsubstantiated claims. And it could bring free-market innovation on the Internet -- the one thing America still does well, the one thing pulling the economy forward -- to a screeching halt.

WHY IS SOPA BAD FOR THE ECONOMY?

Making new internet businesses vulnerable to immediate and brutal closure (usually, for their user's actions, not their own!) unless they work out deals with Big Content in advance would be a terrible drag on innovation.

WHY WOULD THEY WRITE SUCH A BILL?

Because SOPA and PIPA are actually industry-wide power-grabs, a power-play by the Content Industry Dinosaurs to give themselves the keys to the tech kingdom under the guise of 'fighting piracy'. This is backed up by how google, Amazon, Facebook, Tumblr, Youtube and Twitter are all banding together with the Net Coalition. But the new, growing sectors of the economy aren't as good at gaming politics as the old, stagnant sectors.

The old sectors see disruption in their future, and this bill would give them the upper hand in negotiations for how people consume content. In the process, they would make themselves kingmakers and protection-money-collectors of startups and services that let users interact and connect in ways that could be claimed to be 'infringement'. Like sharing a link, or posting a youtube video.

WHY IS THE BILL SO WELL-SUPPORTED?

It's got scary, bipartisan support, because Big Traditional Business is for it on the Right, and Big Hollywood Labor is for it on the Left.

...

Just a sketch. ;) This is just for fun -- but if you want to explain it to someone, I think the shopkeeper-gets-shut-down analogy is a powerful one. Ever since Rick's Cafe getting shut down in Casablanca, or Jimmy Stewart's S&L, it's resonated.

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#59

They aren't covering NDAA either. Or the Mexican civil war. It's not necessarily because of a conflict of interest, I think it's more down to failure of competence.

There is a clear agenda, the only failure is journalistic integrity.

They have to keep the masses ignorant of SOPA, Patriot Act, and NDAA, wouldn't want people to be upset with the destruction of the Constitution.

They are expecting the worst and so are now preparing for the worst. I am scared of things to come.

Re: SOPA-Supporting News Outlets Aren't Covering SOPA

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if Dropbox were a non-US company. That section you just argued could be easily misused to block that site. After all, you can share your files on as many computers as you want. Clearly it will all be music and movies. People that want Dropbox taken down only need one or ten examples. In a popular enough website, it would be easy to find some example people that have broken the ToS and uploaded copyrighted con…

I realize that laws can be twisted by clever lawyers but I still think its quite a stretch to claim that a Dropbox-like site could be said to have its primary purpose be infringing copyrights. For one thing, those files aren't publicly available by default. If they are publicly available, then the Dropbox team is probably already monitoring those files. If they are not monitoring those files then (this part is contro…

> If they are publicly available, then the Dropbox team is probably already monitoring those files.

I doubt that they are. Copyright is a matter of permission. How would any third party know who has permission to do what?

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