SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#51

Post by teeray » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:18 AM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #14

subradios wrote: post #2

But automated call centers do save the customer time. 9 times out of 10 a user problem is easily remediated by pointing the user to the correct manual. If it wasn't, phone trees and other pre-tech phone routing would never save the company money at all! Customers would buy products with customer service that actually solved their problem instead. Customer service solving the customer problem in the fastest possible t…

I would argue automated call centers are a problem. If you end up needing to call someone since you've exhausted all other avenues you do want to talk to someone. At that point you will either: - waste a lot of time navigating prompts until you give up or reach a human. - automated call center will decide that prompt it gave you is the correct one and close your call... (had this happen a lot...) - automated call cen…

> automated call center asks you to state your issue, does speech to text, does a stupid prompt and close

I usually just talk complete nonsense to these prompts (but valid English sentences). That way the automation gives up when it can parse the sentences but can’t intuit meaning from them.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#52

Post by kadomony » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:18 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

If a business is pushing for tips (those dumbass Toast POS consoles that now often start tipping at 20%), the workers are underpaid. Tipping is getting out of control, and businesses just need to pay more.

Tipping is a stupid concept. Japan has the number three economy in the world and they'll refuse tips.

Watch https://youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE and tell me that he's wrong.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#53

Post by falcolas » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

If tipping can ever be mandatory on a bill, it’s a good sign the employees are getting screwed.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#54

Post by x3n0ph3n3 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

carbocation wrote: post #25

monero-xmr wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Since you're quoting the part about QR codes for restaurants: I have had good experiences at bars and restaurants where I input my orders online whenever I want, perhaps multiple times throughout the meal, and the waitstaff bring them out promptly. I obviously don't have data, but it feels twice as fast since I never have to wave people down just to relay my orders. This isn't for everyone, and it's not for every sit…

I went to 2 different hot pot restaurants in the last 2 days with wildly different experiences. Both were "all you can eat" style, where you periodically ask for additional orders of meat and vegetables to add to the hot pot.

The first had QR codes at the table, where you _must_ order using your phone. You cannot have multiple phones ordering at the same table at the same time. It hard-limited you to making orders only once every 10 minutes. This can be particularly problematic when the same limit applies to all tables, regardless of the number of people at the table. Orders would variably be delivered by a person or one of those BellaBot serving robots [1]. I had no problem pulling my plates off the tray and pressing the button to dismiss it, but other tables clearly struggled with it. At some larger tables, the robot would stop near the far end of the table and a person would have to get out of their chair to fetch their own food. Sometimes a server would see it happen and assist the table, but it was sad to see older people struggling with it.

The second place I went to had paper menus which you just checked off what you wanted. There was no limit on how much you could order at once, and they didn't arbitrarily throttle you.

Both restaurants had a similar number of tables with 3-4 staff in the dining room at any given time. The first restaurant was actually a miserable customer experience, with the only take-away being how interesting it was that the novelty made the experience so much worse. I will unlikely go back to that first restaurant, while the second one will always be on the rotating list that me and my wife go to.

I _really_ dislike having to read a menu on my phone or struggle with some low-quality ordering software. From what I could tell, the first restaurant saved nothing on staffing from their "automation."

1. https://provenrobotics.ai/bellabot

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#55

Post by joshstrange » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

Agreed. Not only is tipping a scourge but it doesn't even try to hide what it is, you paying the worker for doing the minimum. In a lot of apps/websites you have to enter a tip before any service is rendered and you have no option to change it later if the service is bad.

For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "claim" that order. Tipping is mandatory if you want to get your food in any reasonable timeframe.

Tipping has spread further and further into our economy and into areas it never should have existed (I'd argue it shouldn't exist at all but it's moved well past "traditional" and reasonable places). Services have the audacity to charge you a membership fee and then essentially require tips on top of that (Looking at you Kroger Boost, I've got a blog article worth of issues with that service).

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#56

Post by gruez » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #38

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

workers who are paid well usually dont have tip jars.

> workers who are paid well usually dont have tip jars.

I'm sure that's why I don't see tip jars at grocery store checkouts, because the workers there are so well paid. Moreover, if you work at a job that society thinks is socially acceptable to ask for tips, why would you leave money on the table just because you're paid $25/hr?

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#57

Post by mason55 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

One perspective on tipping that made me feel a little different is that it can act as a form of progressive pricing or a sliding scale or “pay what your can afford”

It allows places to keep base prices as cheap as possible, which means lots of people can afford to eat out, but people who can afford to pay more can do so. It’s sort of like raising the minimum wage but but having the costs only impact people with higher incomes.

Yes, plenty of rich people are stingy and terrible tippers, so it’s not a perfect analogy. But I try to tip a lot everywhere I go and that’s how I think about it.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#58

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #38

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the customer know whether or not a worker is paid properly? It is none of their business, or responsibility.

workers who are paid well usually dont have tip jars.

So if I put out a tip jar, by definition, I am not paid well?

I do not care if people think I am not paid well, if they want to tip me, I am more than happy to accept it.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#59

Post by actually_a_dog » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:20 AM UTC

This is what you get when you have an economy dominated by financial paperclip maximizers.

https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/paperclip-maximizer

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#60

Post by jmugan » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:20 AM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #49

rqtwteye wrote: post #13

It’s the same with the tipping that seems almost everywhere these days. Instead of the workers being paid properly by the company the customer gets guilt tripped to tip and when you don’t tip the worker is angry at the customer, not the company.

The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. There have been restaurants have tried non-tipping models, consumers and staff both hate it. First the highly productive staff often make less under that model (where poor performers make more), consumers hate it because the menu prices increase, and you end up with McD's level customer service where drinks are…

I don't know, I've had pretty bad service recently at places where you tip. I still top 20% out of guilt, but it might be that service in general is poorer now.