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Apple Sued Alleging Racial Bias Against Minorities on Watch's Blood Oximeter

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Re: Apple Sued Alleging Racial Bias Against Minorities on Watch's Blood Oximeter

#51

This is absurd...

Is it? Apple got a FDA certification for the ECG, if that isn't for all consumers it's a problem. On another note, the FDA handing out "certification" in addition to "approval" seems like a deliberate way to confuse consumers when one is basically a stamp for money.

[dead]

Re: Apple Sued Alleging Racial Bias Against Minorities on Watch's Blood Oximeter

#54

Isn't this a bigger problem involving all pulse oximeters? It was at least two years ago that I first heard that the darker you are, the more likely you will get a false high reading on one.

My wife has Garmin with pulse oximeter (Venu Sq). I wonder how that feature passed any testing at all since it's next to useless. On white skin btw.

Re: Apple Sued Alleging Racial Bias Against Minorities on Watch's Blood Oximeter

#56
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel they should have a disclaimer about it being harder to take picture of dark skinned people in many settings with their cameras as well? Did you actually read the ToS or EULA?

There are slightly different rules for health devices than for leisure ones. If the problem is real, then it seems reasonable to me for Apple (and everyone else, just to be clear) to be made to amend their printed materials to properly disclose well-known-to-Apple problems with oximetry in darker skin. Again, if the problem is real, then they guy deserves a refund, fees covered, maybe a small token for the effort, an…

> and for Apple to not make product claims that it can't fulfill.

What claim did they make? AFAIK, their page on the oximeter always had a disclaimer (the current one says “Blood Oxygen app measurements are not intended for medical use, including self-diagnosis or consultation with a doctor, and are only designed for general fitness and wellness purposes”)

Re: Apple Sued Alleging Racial Bias Against Minorities on Watch's Blood Oximeter

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are slightly different rules for health devices than for leisure ones. If the problem is real, then it seems reasonable to me for Apple (and everyone else, just to be clear) to be made to amend their printed materials to properly disclose well-known-to-Apple problems with oximetry in darker skin. Again, if the problem is real, then they guy deserves a refund, fees covered, maybe a small token for the effort, an…

Is "health device" to medical device as homeopathy is to actual medicine?

No?

Re: Apple Sued Alleging Racial Bias Against Minorities on Watch's Blood Oximeter

#58
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then is it too much to ask to disclose this?

Are you really backing the argument that Apple’s product team is composed of mustache-twirling racists?

Nobody is making this argument.

Re: Apple Sued Alleging Racial Bias Against Minorities on Watch's Blood Oximeter

#59

Maybe we can require people take selfies in sunlight with a known camera sensor and white balance and exposure to accurately gauge their natural skin color, then have a corrective calibration factor sent to the watch's oximeter.

I think there are different issues between cameras and pulse ox. I would guess that the SNR on a pulse ox is decreased by the additional attenuation of the LED illumination being sent in and scattered back out. It may be possible to compensate for this with increased LED brightness, but it would depend on the total degree of signal attenuation whether this is feasible given the power budget.

For an imaging sensor, the sensors are designed to be sensitive at different wavelengths and in different dynamic ranges, with some historical set points determined by major manufacturers being located in Japan. While darker tones do imply less collected light, this seems like a very solvable problem with in-camera image processing.

Another interesting question is around non-invasive neural sensors. Many EEG electrodes work relatively poorly in thick or curly hair, and there's been several efforts to develop EEG electrodes appropriate for natural hair [0]

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33019375/

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